depressing reality relevant to our fetish

[winniethebeer]

1. the avg woman is around 75% bodyweight of the average man

2. a woman weighing the same as a man has on avg 50% his upper body and about 66% his lower body strength.

so do the math and notice the average woman is only 38% as strong as a man on upper body and 50% for lower body. Which means for men to carry women is as easy as carrying a child while the opposite is true; its as hard as a child carrying a grownup

[davelifted]

its remarkable how, if they put their mind to it, how easy it is for some of them to lift and carry me. You forgot the power of the mind

[Slevin]

what is your source for this data?

[aloknath]

I don't know, man. Judging from my experience most healthy women can lift (at least via piggyback if not more) men of up to 185 lbs at least with not too much trouble. There is no dearth of women capable of lifting most of us under 200 lbs. The difficult part is to get them to try and do so! Capability is not, in my opinion, an issue.

[fa]

I agree with your point Ashok 100 %

The thing is how do we find Ladies who share our interest and who are capable of lifting us

I live in South Africa where there are no recognized session wrestlers who 1 can approach for a lift & carry session

I myself have cerebral palsy which affects my speech and walking slightly

making it even more difficult for me to ask ladies in my own country to lift me

[allffcradles]

Originally Posted by winniethebeer

1. the avg woman is around 75% bodyweight of the average man

2. a woman weighing the same as a man has on avg 50% his upper body and about 66% his lower body strength.

so do the math and notice the average woman is only 38% as strong as a man on upper body and 50% for lower body. Which means for men to carry women is as easy as carrying a child while the opposite is true; its as hard as a child carrying a grownup

I fail to see why that is bad, I have no interest in women lifting men, the sadder reality it seems is that a lot of women don't actually like to be carried (And men of the modern age are often either lazy, feeble or just lacking in chivalry as it seems though we're getting bigger on average these days the men are less bothered to carry women now!) and I am also very bothered how hard it is NOT to come across fm material, there was a time when it was easier to find ff or mf stuff without the fm side rearing its head but certainly it isn't the case anymore! Well think of it this way, if women were just as strong as men and about the same size on average would our fetishes be as appealing? I think as a lover of women being carried, no. I do not find large women being lifted a joy, large as in heavy I like them light! Now for those who like the amazons, if that was quite typical for women to be that size again the fetish wouldn't be as unique.

I do get the opinion it seems there is f/m bias on this site and for the record, no most women aren't able to lift their own bodyweight let alone someone heavier in their arms, I can't say I've conducted a survey of this of course but going on my experience from martial arts, luggage and baggage etc it's pretty clear that's the case

[phoneman]

Originally Posted by allffcradles

I fail to see why that is bad, I have no interest in women lifting men, the sadder reality it seems is that a lot of women don't actually like to be carried (And men of the modern age are often either lazy, feeble or just lacking in chivalry as it seems though we're getting bigger on average these days the men are less bothered to carry women now!) and I am also very bothered how hard it is NOT to come across fm material, there was a time when it was easier to find ff or mf stuff without the fm side rearing its head but certainly it isn't the case anymore! Well think of it this way, if women were just as strong as men and about the same size on average would our fetishes be as appealing? I think as a lover of women being carried, no. I do not find large women being lifted a joy, large as in heavy I like them light! Now for those who like the amazons, if that was quite typical for women to be that size again the fetish wouldn't be as unique.

I do get the opinion it seems there is f/m bias on this site and for the record, no most women aren't able to lift their own bodyweight let alone someone heavier in their arms, I can't say I've conducted a survey of this of course but going on my experience from martial arts, luggage and baggage etc it's pretty clear that's the case

All ffcradles. Enough with your criticism of f/m lifting. No one cares that you have no interest in it. This is not the first time that you have made such a posting.

This board is about female lifting either males or females. We will not accept your type of postings.

Why can't you just say that you prefer f/f without attaching f/m? Everyone would understand your point and you would not be as offensive.

Forums and boards have been ripped about by the competition between f/m and f/f. That has not happened here in nearly 4 years and you are not going to cause it with your comments.

[greybeezer]

Originally Posted by allffcradles

I do get the opinion it seems there is f/m bias on this site

You would be wise to take phonemans advice and keep those opinions to yourself then. There have been members removed from the forum for trying to start this f/f vs f/m bullshit and it will not be tolerated here any more. It would be a shame to lose a good member just because they feel their own opinon is more important then those of others. There is no need to insult the f/m fans just because you do not aggree with them there is no right or wrong and lift and carry and since this is such a small comunity we would be wise to try and all get along.

[Leobor]

Originally Posted by winniethebeer

1. the avg woman is around 75% bodyweight of the average man

2. a woman weighing the same as a man has on avg 50% his upper body and about 66% his lower body strength.

so do the math and notice the average woman is only 38% as strong as a man on upper body and 50% for lower body. Which means for men to carry women is as easy as carrying a child while the opposite is true; its as hard as a child carrying a grownup

So? The rarity makes it more valueble. Although I am not into FM that much.

[Slevin]

I have a lot to say on the matter, and this thread oddly enough has brought up some good discussion.

But first I will address Mr. AllFFCradles. For one, I thought that it was quite apparent that winniethebeer started this thread with the intent of it to pertain to F/M Lifting, and so I fail to see why F/F lifting needed to even be brought up here, let alone the bashing of F/M lifting. ("fm side rearing its head"...Give me a break dude).

But about your "hypotheticals"

Originally Posted by allffcradles

Well think of it this way, if women were just as strong as men and about the same size on average would our fetishes be as appealing? I think as a lover of women being carried, no. I do not find large women being lifted a joy, large as in heavy I like them light! Now for those who like the amazons, if that was quite typical for women to be that size again the fetish wouldn't be as unique.

Notice how you use the word "fetishes" as is the case. We are talking about TWO separate fetishes here:
FETISH 1: Females Lifting (FM or FF)
FETISH 2: Females BEING Lifted (FF or MF)

I (along with many others) belong to #1 and you belong to #2. So I can answer for the mine, but I certainly can not answer for yours because I have no interest in that aspect of a female being lifted.

So what if Men and Women were the same size and strength? Well, for me it's a straw man's argument, because that's the way evolution and genetics made it. It can't be another way, so why use hypotheticals?

Evolution chose one gender to be in general, bigger, stronger, and faster than the other, and that's the way it is, so there is nothing to do about it. But that obviously does not mean that it can't happen. There are genetically big and strong and fast females out there too, even though it is not as common as males. (It's just the same way how people of the african race are usually faster, but every once in a while in the olympics you will see a lighter skinned person lining up for a sprint race.) Exceptions can happen.

In our case, for most males in the world, there are females in this world that are bigger, stronger or faster.

I will use myself as an example and your average Lift and Carry Fan. I consider myself to be fairly average size, and above average athletic ability. In my prime as a football (soccer) player I am 178cm and weighed 80kilograms (5'10" and 175 pounds), with very low percentage body fat. Right away, there were several women I knew that were "bigger" than me, many of which who played volleyball and basketball, and I am not talking about fat girls. There were track and field girls that could sprint the 100m and the 200m dashes faster than I could (and some very good looking girls I might add). And I knew of girls who could squat and power clean more than I could (which for our purposes, I believe contributes more to a person's ability to lift another person way more so than a bench press). But there are MANY Girls in the world who can say they have a higher max bench press than me too (my most ever was 130kg which i calculated 286 pounds).

So although I am confident that I am stronger than most of the women in the world, I still realize that there are probably at least thousands of women in the world who are stronger than me, and even many more so who can lift me (i've been lifted by some petite girls mind you). I would bet that there are multiple millions of females on this planet that could lift me up in some way.

But your argument seems to be, if it was not as common for women to be weaker then men, would we still find this appealing? The answer is, I have no idea. I mean let's look at guys who have foot fetishes. You don't see too many women who don't have any feet, so they seem to be very common, but you still see that as a fetish. So who is to say if female size and strength was more common that it would not also be the same popularity?

Originally Posted by allffcradles

I do get the opinion it seems there is f/m bias on this site and for the record, no most women aren't able to lift their own bodyweight let alone someone heavier in their arms, I can't say I've conducted a survey of this of course but going on my experience from martial arts, luggage and baggage etc it's pretty clear that's the case

I don't know why you feel there is such a bias in that the FM's are against the FF's, because from what I have seen, there has been no such thing for a while, as phoneman pointed out. We have our own separate sections on the board, so if you only like one, then just stick to those threads is what I think. I much prefer FM, and very Rarely go into a FF thread. The great majority of my collection is FM, and will save an occasional FF photo if it's very impressive. But right now the F/F L&C Clips section has 9,400 posts compared to 12,000 of the F/M, while the F/F Pictures section leads 6,014 posts to 5,426 posts soy the F/M Pics section. I really don't consider that too much of a bias. Your main FF Lift Pictures Thread has over 2,000 posts in it with THOUSANDS of FF Pictures for your enjoyment, so I don't see any reason to be angry or feel like you are getting the short end of the stick here.

And let's face it, you should be thankful that this forum exists and that you can benefit from it being a fan of Female Liftees. This forum's purpose for being made was for the appeal of FEMALES Lifting (whether it be F/M or F/F). By virtue of it having this large F/F section, it appeals largely to you and the others of FETISH #2(Females being lifted), and so you can indirectly enjoy it as well, even though that was probably not the purpose of the forum in the first place. But this is actually a good thing because with it comes to the F/F lifts, the fans of the Females Lifting vs. the Females Being Lifted can have a symbiotic relationship in that they can both contribute the same material for different reasons and still benefit from one another.

And with the MF lifting, even though I find it a bit bizarre for this forum, I still now realize that there is a small niche on here, and have no problem about what others like. And you should be happy that the mods have been tolerant enough to keep a thread for your MF Lifting Project.

And there are plenty of commercial video sites that cater to what you want (Sleeperkid, Ganju, many FF lifts on Clips4Sale)

And finally, about most women not being able to lift their own bodyweight. Even if that was true, that doesn't matter because the material on this forum has shown that there is far from a shortage of women who actually are capable of lifting not only their own weight, but much larger individuals. So on that point, whatever is all I have to say.




MOVING ON...
Alright now that being said, I will move on to further discussion by staying on topic with what winniethebeer started. I still do not know where you gathered your statistics from, but never the less I will address this Depression.

I am not sure Depression is the right way to put it, because so far, I have not found something in the LC world so disheartening that it would force me to go on Antidepressants. And furthermore, I think all things considered, the L&C World has a lot going good for it.

I would say the negatives about L&C to me are more of just things that are Unfortunate or Disappointments. Examples:
-I find it unfortunate that certain commercial websites don't make material much or at all any more (Tempest, Special Interests, LUSA, Oilwrestlers)
-I find it unfortunate that previous goldmines for pics such as Webshots and Myspace are practically dead, and we have to deal with the FACEBOOK who doesn't even let you see everyone's photos, let alone Search for them. You kinda have to get lucky on Facebook. (but a positive now that we have Instagram)

But I would say there are WHOLE lot more positives. I mean with technology, look how much more material we have at our disposal?? I am just in my late 20's, but I remember before Internet was mainstream. I still had the interest, but where was I to get the material? I can only remember a few pictures that I knew about at the time growing up. When I was in grade school, in our library while thumbing through books I discovered that one of the Guiness World Record Books (circa 1992??) had a small black/white picture of a blond woman with her bearded husband sitting on her shoulders (some of you maybe remember this picture?), but even how lame the picture would be by today's standards, I still made it a point to check that picture out time and time again whenever I was in our school's library.

I was not old enough at the time to know about the Adult Video adds that may have had some of the original L/C videos, but I wouldn't have had the money at the time to pay for it anyways, let alone have it be delivered to my parent's house. And I know I have read posts on similar topics from folks on here much older than I, and I could not even imagine going that many years without the internet. And then, when the Internet became mainstream, and we had it in my household growing up. That's when I learned about awesome sites such Liftnet and Builtmore and Diana, and then Liftfit and Davemeister and Hajo and Nishdah and Bonnefemme. Was a very big deal. Again, I was too young to buy a membership to many of these places, but it was still cool to get on the sites and check out the pictures.

But internet speeds have gotten a lot faster. Where as years ago it took a minute to download one picture, you can go to Youtube instantly and put on a LC Video, no big deal. And now we can get amazing High Definition Quality.

It has gotten to the point that before it was exciting to just see ANY LC Picture to now I find myself more selective on what I want to see because there is So much stuff out there. Some of the poor quality pictures that I just pass over on this forum, if they would have seen them 15 years or so ago, I would have likely studied them a bit closer, and they would have been more appealing.

The other thing is, that we should not be depresses over the low likelihood of a Female being able to Lift and Carry a male, because again, we know that SO many females are more than capable of the task. Who cares if a lot of females can't do it? In fact, I personally believe that Females lifting Males is becoming a more common occurrence with each generation. You might argue that you can't prove that because photography and video was not as frequently used as it could be today with Digital Cameras and iPhones in our pockets and ready for unlimited shots.

But how about this. Especially since TITLE IX, More and More Females are playing sports and competitively training for them, and this has only lead to more percentage of stronger and able females. Sure there were some athletic girls in the past, but not nearly as many as today.

Also, I think the abundance of picture taking ability with the iPhones and Android Phones, and digital cameras in ITSELF has lead to more lift pictures (i.e Lifts can lead to the idea to take pictures, but also the taking of pictures can also lead to the lifting). Younger people will take picture of just about anything these days, you see the albums being posted of fun times in college, or spring break, or at the beach, or what not. Sometimes when the camera comes out, it's like, "Ok what should we do?" and with so many opportunities and creativity sometimes comes the idea to lift. But also, having the instant picture taking ability on virtually everyone today does allow more lifts to be captured and posted on the internet for us.

And I think more FM lifts happen these days because Girls are just crazier and crazier these days (look at Girls Gone Wild for example). Girls are less conservative these days at parties and bars and social gatherings, etc.. so Crazy girls just might get the Crazy idea to go pick that guy up.

So overall, from how far we have come, and comparing what there used to be and what we have now, I see no reason to be depressed. There are a few disappointments, but come on. How much work and effort do you think Hajo had to do to get that amazing Collection of video clips from TV Shows, Movies, and Commercials? Think of him waiting with his VCR Recorder for that commercial to come on again. These days, when I see a lift happen on TV, I can find it instantly on the internet, and usually some one else on this forum has seen it too and has posted it already.

So not much to get down about. We have it good, and as technology advances, I think things can get better.

And if you find it depressing that your own chances of being lifted are low, I would put that blame solely on yourself it you don't get lifted as opposed to the lack of girls able to do so. There are capable females everywhere, and With an outgoing personality, you can get lifted. And if your social skills are weak, then by all means either Improve Them (plenty of great help out there in the form of books, forums, etc) or pay for it if you must. There are plenty of options to have Sessions from what I can tell. And if that's too expensive or the money is too much, then go to the Strip Club. Have not really been to one for the past 5 years or so, but in the past with going to Strip Clubs with some buddies for the hell of it or for a bachelor party, I could always EASILY talk a girl into doing it during a private dance (which was only 15 bucks for 3-4 minutes worth of cradles, front lifts, piggybacks, even shoulder sitting.) I don't think that is too unreasonable.