Is lifting always domination?

[Mark G]

Originally Posted by TheWolfe

Okay, I'll break out of generic gender mode to put some personal input in.

I'm on this board for F/F but I also love to lift women. I don't feel like I'm dominating a woman when I lift her but, after having lots of online discussions about domination, I've realized that I like feeling her submit to being lifted, so by default I guess I like feeling dominant by lifting.

I've also realized that my interest in L&C has nothing to do with the strength of the lifter as much as it has to do with the submission of the liftee and the desire of the lifter to do the lift. It's like an intimate communication between the two. If it's the lifter's idea the communication is "I want to hold you." If it's the liftee's idea then it's "I want you to hold me." When the other party complies, they're communicating back by submitting to the desire of the other.

Because of that, I'd rather see a failed attempt at a more intimate (or playful/friendly) lift that's real between the two parties rather than an impersonal display of brute strength.

Most times I've been lifted,there's been a lot of playfullness in it. I still like being in their control when it occurs though. I was once put over a woman's shoulder and I was looking down at her powerful legs as she walked

[Storm]

Im with the majority here - I dont think so and thats coming from a bird that does lift and carry with guys.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES have any of the true lift and carry fans ever been "submissive" as such - they have just enjoyed being lifted, although for various reasons, whether it be the feeling of a woman that is strong doing it, just the fact they are "swept" off the floor etc etc. and dont really want a guy doing it etc etc.
And gentlemen as well I may add.

[Leobor]

Originally Posted by Storm

Im with the majority here - I dont think so and thats coming from a bird that does lift and carry with guys.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES have any of the true lift and carry fans ever been "submissive" as such - they have just enjoyed being lifted, although for various reasons, whether it be the feeling of a woman that is strong doing it, just the fact they are "swept" off the floor etc etc. and dont really want a guy doing it etc etc.
And gentlemen as well I may add.

Storm, do you ever get lifted? I never had a session, but I am pretty sure I would like to do it in the end if I ever have any.

[Mark G]

Originally Posted by Leobor

Storm, do you ever get lifted? I never had a session, but I am pretty sure I would like to do it in the end if I ever have any.

I'd rather Storm lifted ME than the other way round !

[Storm]

I have been lifted UNDER DURESS!
some of my liftees for some wild reason then want to lift me which usually ensues a chase and then a lot of screaming.

[TheWolfe]

Originally Posted by Storm

I have been lifted UNDER DURESS!
some of my liftees for some wild reason then want to lift me which usually ensues a chase and then a lot of screaming.

Hahahahaha!!!!!

We have something in common then. I HATE to be lifted but I love carrying girls.....but only ones who like being carried so you're safe!

Getting back to my original question, being lifted under duress sounds like being dominated to me. What do you think?

[Storm]

Noooooooooooooo - its human nature to do things to people they dont want to have you do! When its harmless and I dont think thats necessarily domination?
Running down the hallway in a hotel when I was doing a session once with a client over my shoulder because I knew he would actually like it even though he was yelling isnt really domination.
Personally - and this is only opinion and very open to any other opinions - it is only "domination" when we gain by asserting authority in some way.
For instance - if you knew it would be detrimental to someone to lift and it would cause actual real anguish - would you really do it? I wouldnt.
I do see your point about it being domination but it doesnt actually feel like when im doing it - its tends to be that the person want to feel "swept off their feet" or "suspended" or just the "sensation of being lifted by someone".
Come to think of it - I have never done a lift and carry session with someone that was into domination in fact as well. Of course there will be people who are and I have only met a small percentage of them, but its just an opinion based only on doing sessions so it may not be necessarily realistic.
Wolfe - I think we should be put in room with eachother and try to lift eachother!!!!! LOL!!!!

[TheWolfe]

I don't think domination and submission automatically make it BDSM. I think if you let someone lift you under duress you are submitting to their desire to lift you and therefore there's an element of domination to them getting you to submit. You could also say that if someone wants to be lifted and they get you to lift them that you're submitting to their desire by lifting them. Now of course you don't do these sessions for free so maybe your customers are submitting by paying you.

Getting back to BDSM, if someone wants to be dominated so they submit to a dominatrix, is it really submission if they're getting what they want?

[Storm]

Well - you could get into the nitty gritty of every action you make whether it is submissive or dominant but due to my "main job" - appeptance and allowing events "to be" sometimes rather than drill down into the absolute details makes me possibly the wrong person to discuss this with!
And maybe, as I do some sessions, because I am essentially providing a service and doing what the client requests (sometimes!) - I'm the submissive one!
And I have been know to lift men up for the hell of it becuase I enjoy it and its funny and it makes them and me laugh. But I would never in a million years lift someone that genuinely didn't want to be lifted or cause undue stress. Its supposed to be fun. If I knew the gentleman that I whipped up and the corridoor with would be genuinely uncomfortable - I would never ever do it.
Now - on the other side of things - I have had clients who like pony rides - as in I'm on all fours, and although its fun - that most definately was dominant

[pyro]

I don't thinks its domination.I can be wron. However, I think its more about love and caring