What goes into making a video?

filmguy · January 4th, 2010, 03:48

As per the debate over in the M/F lifts myspace video links thread, there doesn't seem to be a lot of clarity for some users as to why they SHOULDN'T distribute videos. I think the big problem that leads to copyright infringement is people just flat out don't understand the process that goes into making videos.

This is an issue that hits close to home for me, as I work in the entertainment industry and make the majority of my income from residuals. Hollywood has identified that the majority of people who pirate movies do it because they think everyone involved is a millionaire so "who cares if we take their money?", and has combated that by including people in the non-glamorous positions (grips, cameramen, stunt people) on commercials saying how the lack of residuals hurts them. A similar strategy was done by the WGA when the writers went on strike, basically saying "look, we're not millionaires" to the public which at first thought they were being greedy.

I think this is the problem we're seeing here, people see how much these videos cost, assume that the producers are rolling in cash, and therefore it doesn't make a difference if they steal videos or not, or even see it as a service that they're allowing people to see the content that "greedy producers" charge for. Maybe the producers we have here going basically giving step by step details as to the process that goes into it, how much they have to pay out of pocket, etc can kind of paint them in a more sympathetic light... show that it's not someone filming their friends for free and then rolling in piles of money afterwords.

I think the "Why is it so expensive?!! Why do I need a credit card?!! Why can't you ship to Nigeria?!!" complaints that are used to justify stealing videos could be decreased with the a lot more information.

So, and mods please let me know if I am being out of line here (feel free to move/delete the thread if I am), I'd like this thread to sort of be a way for producers to give their side of things and hopefully help others gain some insight that may in help solve some of the copyright problems.

homoancient · January 4th, 2010, 21:16

It would take me several pages to get into all the aspects a producer confronts.
I have shot for the new owner of liftfit and later Builtmore and my own area/site antiquity productions and my clips4sale store.

The amount of money in equipment outlay, location expenses especially when the talent flakes, all the time and effort it takes to get talent, making sure the talent can actually do decent lifts. all the special niches in the genre (you cannot please everyone) the risks that the shoot will be a failure, post production issues and on and on. Any problems or unexpected problems in the chain result in a loss that can never be recovered.

I am currently assisting the new owner of liftfit evaluate what he has been doing for viability. He is disillusioned as he dropped the ball back in the days of $45.00 vhs tapes.

I have been a huge advocate of avoiding piracy and supporting producers telling freebie seekers that they were pissing in their own drinking water. Years ago a friend and producer with a site know as liftnet.net pulled the plug, That was the beginning of the end, The proliferation of sites like youtube where snippits are hunted down as long as they are free geometrically speeded up the mess for producers. I can;t tell you how many time I found my stuff posted somewhere with no credit given,

In terms of only a lift4sale store, unless a producer can keep updating his store sales drop to zero in two days.

With full downloads at something like 20 bucks for an hour it is difficult for me to understand how people get so excited over a 20 second snippit that in most cases is far from professional.

There are currently a couple of chinese clips4sale stores. They have their own stlye and I expect the girls there are less of a flake problem and productions costs quite a but lower than in the USA. If one uses a FBB you can expect a good $300.00 per hour fee and y9ou need more than one person in a L&C video.

It is just a lot more expensive, frustrating and time consuming than people imagine,

There is the other world of membership sites. here the producer hopes he can get a sufficient number of members to keep renewing to balance out expenses and also keep getting decent people to work with, We so often see the part 1 - 8 or more clips as they try to maximze a shoot and spead it out over time.

In any event in this ba economy no wonder the she carries dude is tossing in the towel.

dendrin · January 4th, 2010, 22:52

I think being a diversive producer is almost a must with l&c, since it is such a niche fetish. I know liftnet had some success for awhile, probably because he was the pioneer in the field, but most other successful producers also used their models for other type of shoots to save setup and model fees. For instance, besides l&c these companies booked and shot a model for content on all their sites.

Lusa: wrestling, kicking, judo
MFX: various fetishes
Crazycarries: sleepy, necro, feet
Lesfemmesfatales and Special Interests: wrestling
Taylor: various fetishes
Chloe Creations: feet, amazonian, domination stuff

I'm not saying you can't be successful being primarily l&c oriented, Davemeister and Liftnandcarrying have been around for many years now, but it is tougher.

winniethebeer · January 5th, 2010, 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by dendrin

I think being a diversive producer is almost a must with l&c, since it is such a niche fetish. I know liftnet had some success for awhile, probably because he was the pioneer in the field, but most other successful producers also used their models for other type of shoots to save setup and model fees. For instance, besides l&c these companies booked and shot a model for content on all their sites.

Lusa: wrestling, kicking, judo
MFX: various fetishes
Crazycarries: sleepy, necro, feet
Lesfemmesfatales and Special Interests: wrestling
Taylor: various fetishes
Chloe Creations: feet, amazonian, domination stuff

I'm not saying you can't be successful being primarily l&c oriented, Davemeister and Liftnandcarrying have been around for many years now, but it is tougher.

Very true.

Add to that list: Herbiceps, KrivStudio and Herflexappeal. All of them focus on female muscle but will offer lift and carry at times.

homoancient · January 5th, 2010, 16:29

Krivstudio et al are membership sites not clip or video stores like Billwick.com who only sells downloads and DVD's. Kriv mainly follows FBB and puts up photo/video galleries to retain monthly members and yes he will occasionally put up spme L&C but he is not selling videos per se he is selling membership. It a very different approach,

Most L&C producers shoot from the or own perspective and their own point of view. But this is a red herring as the discussion was about piracy and financially supporting L&C producers.

cmcwmod · January 5th, 2010, 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by homoancient

all the special niches in the genre (you cannot please everyone)

I think this is a pivotal point making many L&C commercial sites collapse (to stay in the L&C terminology). The L&C crowd is wildly different with f/f, f/m, piggyback, cradle, a struggling and near-collapsing girl or a strong bodybuilder taunting the guy.

Having no other fetishes, I wonder if creators of other fetish videos have the same problems with very specific preferences or if that's something unique to L&C.

agentdowell · January 5th, 2010, 19:41

I don't think the niche market problem is unique to any particular fetish, or industry in general for that matter. The variety of tastes by individual consumers compels suppliers to provide diversified products to suit those wants. That's why you see fifteen different kinds of jeans at a clothing store or 21 flavors of ice cream at a parlor. The supplier must extend the product variability to cover as many of the niche markets as possible. To deny this fact is to stifle the viability of the production as a whole.

There is a brewpub in my town that is going to go out of business because the owner is trying to keep his establishment 'classy' by discouraging the patronage of college students. I live in a college town. By doing this he is diminishing his weekend revenue by at least 80%.

Hedge your bets and diversify.

tragmich · January 5th, 2010, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by dendrin

... Special Interests: wrestling

I have mentioned this before, but I?ll mention it again. All lift & carry tapes shot by Dave (SI) are customer tapes, ordered and paid for by fans of l&c. Those two girl, 40 minute tapes used to cost USD 450 back in the 90?s.

dendrin · January 5th, 2010, 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by tragmich

I have mentioned this before, but I?ll mention it again. All lift & carry tapes shot by Dave (SI) are customer tapes, ordered and paid for by fans of l&c. Those two girl, 40 minute tapes used to cost USD 450 back in the 90?s.

Yeah, but just about every wrestling video from them includes several lifts as well. Their first focus was wrestling, but always had very strong ties with l&c.

homoancient · January 6th, 2010, 02:20

Regarding Niches. I think the best L&C stuff is by people who shoot what they like and have an understanding of. I recall someone wanted me to shoot a "balloon fetish" video for them having no understanding of the genre I said I could shoot it but not direct as I just din;t get it one iota so I requested the person who what interested to direct. They couldn't make it and insisted if I looked at samples I would get it. Well I didn't get it any more than I understand pedal pushing or why someone would be interested in showing a woman failing and strugling to shoulder lift a male.

Most people like liftnet had a personal interest in L&C and that is why most producers get started. kayak does what interests his personal taste as did I within what I could get talent to do within their limitations., Again the original issue by Filmguy had to do with piracy and we are off on red herrings.

January 4th, 2010, 03:48	#1
filmguy STANDARD Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 71 : 0 For This Post 57 Total	What goes into making a video? As per the debate over in the M/F lifts myspace video links thread, there doesn't seem to be a lot of clarity for some users as to why they SHOULDN'T distribute videos. I think the big problem that leads to copyright infringement is people just flat out don't understand the process that goes into making videos. This is an issue that hits close to home for me, as I work in the entertainment industry and make the majority of my income from residuals. Hollywood has identified that the majority of people who pirate movies do it because they think everyone involved is a millionaire so "who cares if we take their money?", and has combated that by including people in the non-glamorous positions (grips, cameramen, stunt people) on commercials saying how the lack of residuals hurts them. A similar strategy was done by the WGA when the writers went on strike, basically saying "look, we're not millionaires" to the public which at first thought they were being greedy. I think this is the problem we're seeing here, people see how much these videos cost, assume that the producers are rolling in cash, and therefore it doesn't make a difference if they steal videos or not, or even see it as a service that they're allowing people to see the content that "greedy producers" charge for. Maybe the producers we have here going basically giving step by step details as to the process that goes into it, how much they have to pay out of pocket, etc can kind of paint them in a more sympathetic light... show that it's not someone filming their friends for free and then rolling in piles of money afterwords. I think the "Why is it so expensive?!! Why do I need a credit card?!! Why can't you ship to Nigeria?!!" complaints that are used to justify stealing videos could be decreased with the a lot more information. So, and mods please let me know if I am being out of line here (feel free to move/delete the thread if I am), I'd like this thread to sort of be a way for producers to give their side of things and hopefully help others gain some insight that may in help solve some of the copyright problems.

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January 4th, 2010, 21:16	#2
homoancient STANDARD Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 82 : 0 For This Post 12 Total	It would take me several pages to get into all the aspects a producer confronts. I have shot for the new owner of liftfit and later Builtmore and my own area/site antiquity productions and my clips4sale store. The amount of money in equipment outlay, location expenses especially when the talent flakes, all the time and effort it takes to get talent, making sure the talent can actually do decent lifts. all the special niches in the genre (you cannot please everyone) the risks that the shoot will be a failure, post production issues and on and on. Any problems or unexpected problems in the chain result in a loss that can never be recovered. I am currently assisting the new owner of liftfit evaluate what he has been doing for viability. He is disillusioned as he dropped the ball back in the days of $45.00 vhs tapes. I have been a huge advocate of avoiding piracy and supporting producers telling freebie seekers that they were pissing in their own drinking water. Years ago a friend and producer with a site know as liftnet.net pulled the plug, That was the beginning of the end, The proliferation of sites like youtube where snippits are hunted down as long as they are free geometrically speeded up the mess for producers. I can;t tell you how many time I found my stuff posted somewhere with no credit given, In terms of only a lift4sale store, unless a producer can keep updating his store sales drop to zero in two days. With full downloads at something like 20 bucks for an hour it is difficult for me to understand how people get so excited over a 20 second snippit that in most cases is far from professional. There are currently a couple of chinese clips4sale stores. They have their own stlye and I expect the girls there are less of a flake problem and productions costs quite a but lower than in the USA. If one uses a FBB you can expect a good $300.00 per hour fee and y9ou need more than one person in a L&C video. It is just a lot more expensive, frustrating and time consuming than people imagine, There is the other world of membership sites. here the producer hopes he can get a sufficient number of members to keep renewing to balance out expenses and also keep getting decent people to work with, We so often see the part 1 - 8 or more clips as they try to maximze a shoot and spead it out over time. In any event in this ba economy no wonder the she carries dude is tossing in the towel.

January 4th, 2010, 22:52	#3
dendrin Administrator Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4,030 : 0 For This Post 11,138 Total	I think being a diversive producer is almost a must with l&c, since it is such a niche fetish. I know liftnet had some success for awhile, probably because he was the pioneer in the field, but most other successful producers also used their models for other type of shoots to save setup and model fees. For instance, besides l&c these companies booked and shot a model for content on all their sites. Lusa: wrestling, kicking, judo MFX: various fetishes Crazycarries: sleepy, necro, feet Lesfemmesfatales and Special Interests: wrestling Taylor: various fetishes Chloe Creations: feet, amazonian, domination stuff I'm not saying you can't be successful being primarily l&c oriented, Davemeister and Liftnandcarrying have been around for many years now, but it is tougher.

January 5th, 2010, 16:29	#5
homoancient STANDARD Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 82 : 0 For This Post 12 Total	Krivstudio et al are membership sites not clip or video stores like Billwick.com who only sells downloads and DVD's. Kriv mainly follows FBB and puts up photo/video galleries to retain monthly members and yes he will occasionally put up spme L&C but he is not selling videos per se he is selling membership. It a very different approach, Most L&C producers shoot from the or own perspective and their own point of view. But this is a red herring as the discussion was about piracy and financially supporting L&C producers.

January 5th, 2010, 19:41	#7
agentdowell STANDARD Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 129 : 0 For This Post 5 Total	I don't think the niche market problem is unique to any particular fetish, or industry in general for that matter. The variety of tastes by individual consumers compels suppliers to provide diversified products to suit those wants. That's why you see fifteen different kinds of jeans at a clothing store or 21 flavors of ice cream at a parlor. The supplier must extend the product variability to cover as many of the niche markets as possible. To deny this fact is to stifle the viability of the production as a whole. There is a brewpub in my town that is going to go out of business because the owner is trying to keep his establishment 'classy' by discouraging the patronage of college students. I live in a college town. By doing this he is diminishing his weekend revenue by at least 80%. Hedge your bets and diversify.

January 6th, 2010, 02:20	#10
homoancient STANDARD Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 82 : 0 For This Post 12 Total	Regarding Niches. I think the best L&C stuff is by people who shoot what they like and have an understanding of. I recall someone wanted me to shoot a "balloon fetish" video for them having no understanding of the genre I said I could shoot it but not direct as I just din;t get it one iota so I requested the person who what interested to direct. They couldn't make it and insisted if I looked at samples I would get it. Well I didn't get it any more than I understand pedal pushing or why someone would be interested in showing a woman failing and strugling to shoulder lift a male. Most people like liftnet had a personal interest in L&C and that is why most producers get started. kayak does what interests his personal taste as did I within what I could get talent to do within their limitations., Again the original issue by Filmguy had to do with piracy and we are off on red herrings.