What goes into making a video?

[filmguy]

As per the debate over in the M/F lifts myspace video links thread, there doesn't seem to be a lot of clarity for some users as to why they SHOULDN'T distribute videos. I think the big problem that leads to copyright infringement is people just flat out don't understand the process that goes into making videos.

This is an issue that hits close to home for me, as I work in the entertainment industry and make the majority of my income from residuals. Hollywood has identified that the majority of people who pirate movies do it because they think everyone involved is a millionaire so "who cares if we take their money?", and has combated that by including people in the non-glamorous positions (grips, cameramen, stunt people) on commercials saying how the lack of residuals hurts them. A similar strategy was done by the WGA when the writers went on strike, basically saying "look, we're not millionaires" to the public which at first thought they were being greedy.

I think this is the problem we're seeing here, people see how much these videos cost, assume that the producers are rolling in cash, and therefore it doesn't make a difference if they steal videos or not, or even see it as a service that they're allowing people to see the content that "greedy producers" charge for. Maybe the producers we have here going basically giving step by step details as to the process that goes into it, how much they have to pay out of pocket, etc can kind of paint them in a more sympathetic light... show that it's not someone filming their friends for free and then rolling in piles of money afterwords.

I think the "Why is it so expensive?!! Why do I need a credit card?!! Why can't you ship to Nigeria?!!" complaints that are used to justify stealing videos could be decreased with the a lot more information.

So, and mods please let me know if I am being out of line here (feel free to move/delete the thread if I am), I'd like this thread to sort of be a way for producers to give their side of things and hopefully help others gain some insight that may in help solve some of the copyright problems.

[homoancient]

It would take me several pages to get into all the aspects a producer confronts.
I have shot for the new owner of liftfit and later Builtmore and my own area/site antiquity productions and my clips4sale store.

The amount of money in equipment outlay, location expenses especially when the talent flakes, all the time and effort it takes to get talent, making sure the talent can actually do decent lifts. all the special niches in the genre (you cannot please everyone) the risks that the shoot will be a failure, post production issues and on and on. Any problems or unexpected problems in the chain result in a loss that can never be recovered.

I am currently assisting the new owner of liftfit evaluate what he has been doing for viability. He is disillusioned as he dropped the ball back in the days of $45.00 vhs tapes.

I have been a huge advocate of avoiding piracy and supporting producers telling freebie seekers that they were pissing in their own drinking water. Years ago a friend and producer with a site know as liftnet.net pulled the plug, That was the beginning of the end, The proliferation of sites like youtube where snippits are hunted down as long as they are free geometrically speeded up the mess for producers. I can;t tell you how many time I found my stuff posted somewhere with no credit given,

In terms of only a lift4sale store, unless a producer can keep updating his store sales drop to zero in two days.

With full downloads at something like 20 bucks for an hour it is difficult for me to understand how people get so excited over a 20 second snippit that in most cases is far from professional.

There are currently a couple of chinese clips4sale stores. They have their own stlye and I expect the girls there are less of a flake problem and productions costs quite a but lower than in the USA. If one uses a FBB you can expect a good $300.00 per hour fee and y9ou need more than one person in a L&C video.

It is just a lot more expensive, frustrating and time consuming than people imagine,

There is the other world of membership sites. here the producer hopes he can get a sufficient number of members to keep renewing to balance out expenses and also keep getting decent people to work with, We so often see the part 1 - 8 or more clips as they try to maximze a shoot and spead it out over time.

In any event in this ba economy no wonder the she carries dude is tossing in the towel.

[dendrin]

I think being a diversive producer is almost a must with l&c, since it is such a niche fetish. I know liftnet had some success for awhile, probably because he was the pioneer in the field, but most other successful producers also used their models for other type of shoots to save setup and model fees. For instance, besides l&c these companies booked and shot a model for content on all their sites.

Lusa: wrestling, kicking, judo
MFX: various fetishes
Crazycarries: sleepy, necro, feet
Lesfemmesfatales and Special Interests: wrestling
Taylor: various fetishes
Chloe Creations: feet, amazonian, domination stuff

I'm not saying you can't be successful being primarily l&c oriented, Davemeister and Liftnandcarrying have been around for many years now, but it is tougher.

[winniethebeer]

I think being a diversive producer is almost a must with l&c, since it is such a niche fetish. I know liftnet had some success for awhile, probably because he was the pioneer in the field, but most other successful producers also used their models for other type of shoots to save setup and model fees. For instance, besides l&c these companies booked and shot a model for content on all their sites.

Lusa: wrestling, kicking, judo
MFX: various fetishes
Crazycarries: sleepy, necro, feet
Lesfemmesfatales and Special Interests: wrestling
Taylor: various fetishes
Chloe Creations: feet, amazonian, domination stuff

I'm not saying you can't be successful being primarily l&c oriented, Davemeister and Liftnandcarrying have been around for many years now, but it is tougher.

Very true.

Add to that list: Herbiceps, KrivStudio and Herflexappeal. All of them focus on female muscle but will offer lift and carry at times.

[homoancient]

Krivstudio et al are membership sites not clip or video stores like Billwick.com who only sells downloads and DVD's. Kriv mainly follows FBB and puts up photo/video galleries to retain monthly members and yes he will occasionally put up spme L&C but he is not selling videos per se he is selling membership. It a very different approach,

Most L&C producers shoot from the or own perspective and their own point of view. But this is a red herring as the discussion was about piracy and financially supporting L&C producers.

[cmcwmod]

all the special niches in the genre (you cannot please everyone)

I think this is a pivotal point making many L&C commercial sites collapse (to stay in the L&C terminology). The L&C crowd is wildly different with f/f, f/m, piggyback, cradle, a struggling and near-collapsing girl or a strong bodybuilder taunting the guy.

Having no other fetishes, I wonder if creators of other fetish videos have the same problems with very specific preferences or if that's something unique to L&C.

[agentdowell]

I don't think the niche market problem is unique to any particular fetish, or industry in general for that matter. The variety of tastes by individual consumers compels suppliers to provide diversified products to suit those wants. That's why you see fifteen different kinds of jeans at a clothing store or 21 flavors of ice cream at a parlor. The supplier must extend the product variability to cover as many of the niche markets as possible. To deny this fact is to stifle the viability of the production as a whole.

There is a brewpub in my town that is going to go out of business because the owner is trying to keep his establishment 'classy' by discouraging the patronage of college students. I live in a college town. By doing this he is diminishing his weekend revenue by at least 80%.

Hedge your bets and diversify.

[tragmich]

... Special Interests: wrestling
I have mentioned this before, but I?ll mention it again. All lift & carry tapes shot by Dave (SI) are customer tapes, ordered and paid for by fans of l&c. Those two girl, 40 minute tapes used to cost USD 450 back in the 90?s.

[dendrin]

I have mentioned this before, but I?ll mention it again. All lift & carry tapes shot by Dave (SI) are customer tapes, ordered and paid for by fans of l&c. Those two girl, 40 minute tapes used to cost USD 450 back in the 90?s.

Yeah, but just about every wrestling video from them includes several lifts as well. Their first focus was wrestling, but always had very strong ties with l&c.

[homoancient]

Regarding Niches. I think the best L&C stuff is by people who shoot what they like and have an understanding of. I recall someone wanted me to shoot a "balloon fetish" video for them having no understanding of the genre I said I could shoot it but not direct as I just din;t get it one iota so I requested the person who what interested to direct. They couldn't make it and insisted if I looked at samples I would get it. Well I didn't get it any more than I understand pedal pushing or why someone would be interested in showing a woman failing and strugling to shoulder lift a male.

Most people like liftnet had a personal interest in L&C and that is why most producers get started. kayak does what interests his personal taste as did I within what I could get talent to do within their limitations., Again the original issue by Filmguy had to do with piracy and we are off on red herrings.

[tragmich]

Yeah, but just about every wrestling video from them includes several lifts as well. Their first focus was wrestling, but always had very strong ties with l&c.
Yes, and we kept on begging Dave to make a compilation tape of the lifts from the wrestling tapes. Finally he did.

[rflcblue]

Hello filmguy,

Thank you for trying to begin this thread. I could write a long posting with details of my thoughts, also with information about my work ?another time. Here are 2 notions:

1. One thing is to explain the lift and carry fans about the background and the difficulties to offer lift and carry videos online as a viable business in order to make them more sensitive against abuse and more open to support producers.

2. Another thing is not to discourage those enthusiasts, who are only 1-2 steps away from offering their stuff online by telling them how complicated and senseless it is (no viable business possible). This would be a shame.

I agree with CMCWmod concerning the wildly divided community and their fondness for different l&c-details and also with Dendrin concerning the combination of fetishes for making a project viable. Maybe you consider that too much professionalism (one girl for all fetishes) does not guarantee the best l&c-result (see Homoancients posting about his balloonfetish-video). Probably there are people who are curious to offer their own content, though they know they cannot become rich of it. Is it possible to find a balance between hobby and business?

I finally do not regret at all, what I did with shecarries. This was a damned thrilling time, a spice in my live, a counterpart of my straining job and I was also glad when a couple of customers told me they like the videos, I only just earned nothing.

Thank you and best regards,

Jo.
(www.shecarries.com)

[intolnc]

I finally do not regret at all, what I did with shecarries. This was a damned thrilling time, a spice in my live, a counterpart of my straining job and I was also glad when a couple of customers told me they like the videos, I only just earned nothing.

I'd certainly be one of the first buyers of any new material you'd put online on your page. If that will ever happen... :crying:

[filmguy]

Hello filmguy,

Thank you for trying to begin this thread. I could write a long posting with details of my thoughts, also with information about my work ?another time. Here are 2 notions:

1. One thing is to explain the lift and carry fans about the background and the difficulties to offer lift and carry videos online as a viable business in order to make them more sensitive against abuse and more open to support producers.

2. Another thing is not to discourage those enthusiasts, who are only 1-2 steps away from offering their stuff online by telling them how complicated and senseless it is (no viable business possible). This would be a shame.


Yeah I wasn't trying to go with 2.... don't want to discourage anyone. In fact, I hoped that maybe it would inspire more people to try it out. Even if they only produce 1 video, that's new content :)

But I really do think, and I think boards like this do help, as we're able to communicate with you, Davemeister, Taylor, Homoancient and others who are involved in the production of videos, we have at least a name to go with the company.... putting a human spin on the dicussion makes producers less of a "faceless corporation," and in my opinion, harder to steal from.

[homoancient]

I just can;t tell you how much it urls me when I see so many freebie seekers going bonkers over a 10 second snippit clip when if they had supported the people who were producing full length videos there would have been a plethora of videos out there.

I just had to advise someone whi was on hiatus thinking of coming back to hang it up. That is pretty much the advice I gave myself after being screwed by Nercy from Builtmore.

[rflcblue]

What goes into producing and selling lift and carry videos?
(some special information based on our work with www.shecarries.com)

1. Formal requirements (5% of work)
In many countries (I produced in Germany) you first have to register a trade. You get a tax number. You have to pay sales tax for your subscriptions. You have to pay income tax, when you have profits. You must do a tax computation at least one time a year. Maybe you need a tax accountant, we needed one. You have to pay him.

2. Equipment (5% of work)
Everything around a computer, a backup solution (at least an external hard drive), a video-cut-program, a web design-program (when you want to design your own website), a good video-camera, a professional reporter-headlight with a battery belt (when you shoot outside in the evening), a tripod, a wide-angle lens is useful, a car, a contractor for the payment, a web host and a domain (for your own website).

3. Finding models (25% of work)
(?please don?t ask me, how exactly we find our models). But here are some notes: you can contact professional models by different ways, but it is not so cheap (compare also homoancients comment: ?a good $ 300.00 per hour fee?). If you work with amateurs or hobby-models it may be cheaper, but consider: one thing is to find girls for a (private) lift and carry video-session; another thing is to get the permission of them, that you may use the video for the internet. We found that amateur girls didn?t mind to do a private video-shooting but did not want to be online or even on youtube. Anyway you should respect the personality-rights and of course get the permission of the girls in writing. Furthermore you should be patient. We found, that maybe 2 of 10 girls that we contacted were finally willing to do a lift and carry video shooting for the internet. On the other hand this is a very thrilling affair. We also found that a girl, that first said ?No?, finally was curious to do it, because she heard from her girl friends that everything was OK. Sometimes we made a try-out date with girls in order to check what they can do, sometimes we did this in order to provide confidence for a video-shooting with us. Anyway you have to pay for this.

4. The place for the shooting (5% of work)
Maybe you have an appropriate room or even a studio. If not you can rent a room for your session. Another possibility is to do the shooting outside like we mostly did. It is diversified and offers a large free moving space. We often selected the location for the shooting near to the contact address of the models to minimize pay-time or travel expenses. Here are some notes concerning an appropriate place outside:
- not too much public and not too much noise (not near to a highway or a railroad line)
- be careful with private areas (avoid the writing of a company label on your video)
- it is useful, when you can reach the place by car
- if you pick up the girls you can tell them further details for the shooting while driving
- tell them more about this very rare fetish and encourage them for your shooting
- don?t forget to check the weather report before the shooting-day

5. The shooting (5% of work)
- check the girls and their clothing (amateurs: no cigarettes, no chewing gum). I have some sessions with bubblegum and those tough girls look so silly and I was angry afterwards because I did not notice it until I saw the movie on the monitor at home.
- tell the girls how to start, what to do and where to go.
- the more you have explained before, the less disturbing comments during the shot.
- do the shooting.
- pay the girls.

6. Prepare the video for the internet (35% of work)
- copy the video-material from your camera to your computer.
- check it and consider which parts of the movie you will take and what you will cut off.
- first do the video-cut of the pictures.
- then care for the sound. Cut off improper parts of the sound:
We had about 5 times as much work with the sound-cut as with the video-cut. If you shoot outside there are often sounds like airplanes, barking dogs, rescue vans or you give instructions during the action (?throw him up, go faster,?). A good video should have an authentic sound but no extern disturbing noise or permanent directives, what the girls shall do. If you for instance cut off the noise of an helicopter you have to replace it by another sound (you cannot leave it blank, because everybody will think the video is defect). But if the girl walks on high heels, you should hear the clicking of her shoes. If you want to produce a good quality, you can take the sound of the walking heels from another part of the video and copy it to the place, where the helicopter was. But this will only succeed, when you stretch the sound the right way so that the snap of the shoes is congruent to the pictures. If you have done all this, you have an authentic sound without annoying noise or too much nerving comments. You can also completely delete the authentic sound and put music into the video. This is very simple but if you take music do not use copyrighted songs from the charts. For a commercial video you must search or buy non copyrighted music. I personally do not like only-music-videos. I rather want to hear the breath of the girls, just the original sound. We put in music for special parts such as slow motion scenes, also mixing music and original sound can be very nice.
- when you have finished the cut, add a lead text and your symbol.
- check the video, then encode it for the internet.
- check the encoded video.
- maybe you still adjust contrast, brightness and coloring, then encode it once again.
We finally needed about 1,5 hours of preparations-work for 1 minute encoded video-material, that means about 90 hours of work for 60 minutes of online-video material.

7. Web design (10% of work)
If you have your own website, you have to complete the design of the site for your new video (?photos, text, price, length and weight of the actors, sample-video?, ?).

8. Payment (5% of work)
If you sell different separate videos like we did you have to install the payment via credit-card for your new video on your website. It is useful when you can handle at least a little bit of html-speech. I don?t have a good command of html speech and my english is not good enough to discuss technical problems. So we needed the support of our not very known german contractor Netdebit (and not the well known CCBill for instance). Without their help (technical telephone-support in german language) we wouldn?t have been able to run our site.

9. Upload to web server (5% of work)
Usually the payment-contractor has a system with a password-protection, that must be installed on your web server, before you upload the new video. Then you can upload it via FTP-program. You also have to upload your new html-sites in order to complete your website before anyone can subscribe your new video.

10. Business
We were quite naive when we started, believing that maybe 1 of 10 persons of the lift and carry community would subscribe for content. We sold our video-pools medial maybe 70-75 times. If you assume, that there are at least 3500 lift and carry fans around the world you see, that finally 2 of 100 were interested/willing/able to pay for the kind of content we produced. We would need about 8 of 100 (at least ca. 250 subscriptions) to get a business-model like ours to the point, where we begin to make profits and don?t have to work for free or have minus. Of course we could try to change or improve our business model (maybe offering 20 minutes-videos with 2 models for $ 20.00 as a kind of clips4sale instead of 60 minutes of mixed videos with more than 15 models for $ 30.00 like we did or minimizing our cutting time by completely deleting the original sound and putting music behind the pictures or especially investing a lot of time in advertising). But at the moment I am sure we would not get the point to make it viable. The number of people, who is interested to subscribe is too low and the offer of pay-content and especially free available content too great.

Yet I would be glad, when this contribution helps to improve the situation and I hope it was not too much.

Best regards, Jo.
(www.shecarries.com)

[Daniel]

Wann wird das neue Video?
When will the new video?

[rflcblue]

Wann wird das neue Video?
When will the new video?

Dear Daniel,

Mir fehlen die Worte, (...what shall I say!)
vielleicht in meinem n?chsten Leben, (...maybe in my next life)

viele Gr??e,
best regards,

Jo.

[Daniel]

Dear Daniel,

Mir fehlen die Worte, (...what shall I say!)
vielleicht in meinem n?chsten Leben, (...maybe in my next life)

viele Gr??e,
best regards,

Jo.
Warten Sie bitte ein Brief von mein Freund.

[intolnc]

Very interesting and detailed post, rflcblue.
Sadly I already own all the online video-pools on your site, so as long as there's no new content, I can't pay! Well, I'd even go for the other un-edited material that you haven't uploaded yet, if there's any way.

[rflcblue]

Very interesting and detailed post, rflcblue.
Sadly I already own all the online video-pools on your site, so as long as there's no new content, I can't pay! Well, I'd even go for the other un-edited material that you haven't uploaded yet, if there's any way.

I know there were a couple of good customers and I am sorry for them. Thank you for your interest, intolnc.

[Coolbeans]

I know there were a couple of good customers and I am sorry for them. Thank you for your interest, intolnc.

Obviously it is understood why it would be hard for you to keep your site going. Quite a shame as you were really coming along with your videos. Here's hoping you can find a way to update your site again with new material at some point.

And on that note, it would appear that the lift/carry site from Argentina (http://www.esforzadas.com.ar/) is now dead in the water (the link doesn't even work anymore). Also a shame as there were some VERY attractive women performing lifts on that site. Was anyone lucky enough to be a member while it was available?

[cmcwmod]

Well, just like newspapers, Hollywood Studios and record labels, L&C is unable to find a viable business model on the web...

At least thanks for the effort, rflcblue. There were some good videos on your site.

[rflcblue]

Obviously it is understood why it would be hard for you to keep your site going. Quite a shame as you were really coming along with your videos. Here's hoping you can find a way to update your site again with new material at some point.

Yes, I had to stop it. It is a process for me. Now I can see if I am missing something. But this is my very personal part. Then I wanted to support this idea to show people by concrete facts what goes into running such a site. There is a necessity for trying to improve the current situation.

...as to the argentinian website, I missed it.

...at least my site helped me to improve my english knolledges. I always read and write this with an online dictionary.

[rflcblue]

Well, just like newspapers, Hollywood Studios and record labels, L&C is unable to find a viable business model on the web...

...OK, it is not viable, ...you have to work a lot for free; ...then you still have to accept, that you have no control over what happens with your material on the web.

For me personally it would be an essential argument, when the IT-technic had a solution against this increasing problem. Though it might be very unpopular: when customers would accept (...and I know, that this is a critical point...), that they could only see the videos for a limited time (3, 6, 12 months), but could not download them, I could rather accept, that it might be a hobby for me to offer videos. Maybe there are other upcoming new technics, that you can download videos but not distribute it over the web. Actually I belief, that there will be new solutions in future.

[Leobor]

I have to say something. I ordered 2 clips from chloecreations, and I was very satisfied. BUT, I payed them 55 USD each (110 together) and then I saw (for my big surprice) that those site is selling those clips for 3 USD each.

Is that all right for a custumer? I think not, as it looks like I made myself an idiot. The only thing I should do is wait for a custum clip for someone to order and then pay it 3 dollars I guess.

[dp]

...OK, it is not viable, ...you have to work a lot for free; ...then you still have to accept, that you have no control over what happens with your material on the web.

For me personally it would be an essential argument, when the IT-technic had a solution against this increasing problem. Though it might be very unpopular: when customers would accept (...and I know, that this is a critical point...), that they could only see the videos for a limited time (3, 6, 12 months), but could not download them, I could rather accept, that it might be a hobby for me to offer videos. Maybe there are other upcoming new technics, that you can download videos but not distribute it over the web. Actually I belief, that there will be new solutions in future.
Sorry to disappoint you, but the technology you want will never exist. Anyone could point a camera to the screen and record the video in sufficient quality for this kind of fetish material.

Besides, on open platforms such as PCs and Macs, a determined person can even bypass any kind of protection to enable perfect copies. The reason is that no matter what you do, your customers must be able to receive and play back the content on their own computer. This means that any kind of protection can be bypassed by reverse engineering the software used for viewing your video. This is one of the reasons why game developers prefer consoles such as PS3 and Xbox 360 to the PC. (The consoles are locked down in hardware so that only software approved by Sony and Microsoft can run on them.)

Technology can never prevent your material from being distributed illegally, but there are digital watermarking technologies that can make it easier to track down those responsible for distributing your stuff illegally.

[dendrin]

I agree with dp. Basically, you can fight technology only to a point. As I said before, pretty sure illegal distribution was not the problem. I bet you would be successful on your next try with a little better advertising, cost cutting, and better luck on your market timing (avoiding recessions :( )

[rflcblue]

Sorry to disappoint you, but the technology you want will never exist. ...

Thank you for the information, dp. I should have supposed, that it would not be so easy. So I have no solution, though I generally don?t mind sharing my videos with serious people. And finally I feel a little bit like Leobor in that post before and I better don?t speak about my damage.

[Leobor]

Thank you for the information, dp. I should have supposed, that it would not be so easy. So I have no solution, though I generally don?t mind sharing my videos with serious people. And finally I feel a little bit like Leobor in that post before and I better don?t speak about my damage.

Just to make myself clear - I posted those here in VIP sections and I was glad I did it. But I did that for this forum, no one else. And now, every guy who has 3 dollars can take that same video... It just has no sense! They could at least give me some percentage of this 3 dollars custumers (as script and girls was my pick).

I wanted to do one more, but now I am a little bit frustrated. Why should I anyway?

[rflcblue]

I agree with dp. Basically, you can fight technology only to a point. As I said before, pretty sure illegal distribution was not the problem. I bet you would be successful on your next try with a little better advertising, cost cutting, and better luck on your market timing (avoiding recessions :( )

I am able to relate to your points and thanks for these encouraging words. I feel like I have arrived at this forum. In Germany it?s 2:00 o?clock in the night and I should better sleep, but one thing I still can say, I belief, I unfortunately don?t like advertising... :confused1: .

[tragmich]

I have to say something. I ordered 2 clips from chloecreations, and I was very satisfied. BUT, I payed them 55 USD each (110 together) and then I saw (for my big surprice) that those site is selling those clips for 3 USD each.

Is that all right for a custumer? I think not, as it looks like I made myself an idiot. The only thing I should do is wait for a custum clip for someone to order and then pay it 3 dollars I guess.
Leobor
It has always been like this. Go back 20 years in time and a 40 minutes custom vhs tape with 2 girls would cost USD 350. 15 years ago a 2 girl tape would cost USD 450. Any additional girl would raise the price with USD 150. Two years after the making of each custom tape, the tape could be selled by the producer to the public for about 50-60 dollars. This was the standard contract and you had to accept it, if you wanted a lift and carry tape.

Look at it this way. If you hadn?t ordered the clips, they would never have been made.

[tragmich]

Rflcblue
Thank you very much for your long description. Is there any chance of you ever making any custom tapes in the future? You had some very pretty girls working for you!

[filmguy]

Just to make myself clear - I posted those here in VIP sections and I was glad I did it. But I did that for this forum, no one else. And now, every guy who has 3 dollars can take that same video... It just has no sense! They could at least give me some percentage of this 3 dollars custumers (as script and girls was my pick).

I wanted to do one more, but now I am a little bit frustrated. Why should I anyway?

It seems like custom videos are what keeps this company in business, much more than the $3 clips4sale clips do.

The sense of it is that if nobody was buying customs, there would be no content. I'm sure most of the custom money goes towards paying models, which they probably couldn't do just on their own. If they didn't turn around and sell "your" video clips, where are they gonna get content from? I'm sure they made zero profit off of you, and are breaking even with the money they make from selling the clips.

[rflcblue]

Rflcblue
Thank you very much for your long description. Is there any chance of you ever making any custom tapes in the future? You had some very pretty girls working for you!

Yes, it was a longer post, ...many people won?t read it. I had to laugh, when I saw the first coment of Daniel: "...stop talking and produce!!!"

As to custom-videos. I had a few requests, but did not want it yet. I exclude naked lift and carry. But I would be interested to exchange some thoughts with you (via e-mail, for instance my website e-mail, if you like also in German language?...)

[rflcblue]

Just to make myself clear - I posted those here in VIP sections and I was glad I did it. But I did that for this forum, no one else. And now, every guy who has 3 dollars can take that same video... It just has no sense! They could at least give me some percentage of this 3 dollars custumers (as script and girls was my pick).

I wanted to do one more, but now I am a little bit frustrated. Why should I anyway?

When I think about your problem:
for $ 3.00 everybody can decide to order that video. He must take, what he gets. But noone else than YOU has decided, what exactly is on the video and if they have done well you probably have the greatest pleasure of it. I began to shoot my own videos, because I did not find enough of what I exactly liked. Later I got the idea of an own website. When I am frustrated, that I lost a lot of money and time, I tell myself that I at least have done exactly what I wanted to do. And I ask you, what is this worth? ...and what is it worth counting dollars? So you are probably rather straight than beeing an idiot.

[Daniel]

Ich habe deine adresse aber deine mail nix funktioniert.

[rflcblue]

Ich habe deine adresse aber deine mail nix funktioniert.

Die Mail-Adresse m?sste funktionieren, ich habe einen test gemacht; aber ich habe ein Auge darauf.
The mail-adress should work, I have tested it; but I`ll keep an eye on it.

[Daniel]

Die Mail-Adresse m?sste funktionieren, ich habe einen test gemacht; aber ich habe ein Auge darauf.
The mail-adress should work, I have tested it; but I`ll keep an eye on it.
OK -probieren!:D

[tragmich]

But I would be interested to exchange some thoughts with you (via e-mail, for instance my website e-mail, if you like also in German language?...)
Ok. I?ll contact you later. I have a hectic time at work right now, but I hope to find more free time later in June.

[rflcblue]

Ok. I?ll contact you later. I have a hectic time at work right now, but I hope to find more free time later in June.

Yes, of course, I have no hurry. I just had a thought and was not ready to discuss it at once. I wish you good luck at work.

[goneju]

Yes, of course, I have no hurry. I just had a thought and was not ready to discuss it at once. I wish you good luck at work.

HI! rflcblue. Firstly I must say that you have done some amazing work on www.shecarries.com . I was planning to purchase videos from your site today but could not purchase it as it is not accepting the purchase. Can you tell me how to purchase videos from your website. Secondly I am willing to work with you as far as producing videos is concerned. I am a great fan of ff lift and carry. I am passionate about lift and carry. Do let me know how we can work together. You have made videos with some lovely ladies. Hope to hear from you soon.

[rflcblue]

HI! rflcblue. Firstly I must say that you have done some amazing work on www.shecarries.com . I was planning to purchase videos from your site today but could not purchase it as it is not accepting the purchase. Can you tell me how to purchase videos from your website. Secondly I am willing to work with you as far as producing videos is concerned. I am a great fan of ff lift and carry. I am passionate about lift and carry. Do let me know how we can work together. You have made videos with some lovely ladies. Hope to hear from you soon.

I am sorry, ganju90, I have stopped it for it was not viable (...more details in my long post some sites ago...). The website with pictures and samples is still online, but you cannot subscribe any more.

[goneju]

I am sorry, ganju90, I have stopped it for it was not viable (...more details in my long post some sites ago...). The website with pictures and samples is still online, but you cannot subscribe any more.

Can u post those videos on clips4sale so that anyone who is interested can buy them.

[MistressTaylor]

As per the debate over in the M/F lifts myspace video links thread, there doesn't seem to be a lot of clarity for some users as to why they SHOULDN'T distribute videos. I think the big problem that leads to copyright infringement is people just flat out don't understand the process that goes into making videos.

Thanks for asking this question. I went through this thread with my partner and have a few comments.

Rflcblue's rundown of the 10 bullet points (http://landcforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=34224&postcount=16)to producing and distributing videos is as good a list as any I could make. Some of those points are weighted differently for different producers like any producer that exclusively distributes through clips4sale doesn't have to deal with payments, web design, hosting considerations and a few other factors. That comes at the price of 40% off the top going to clips4sale though.

Most of the models I use are professional fetish or porn models and their hourly rates are less then most Fbbs or Amazons but I have to pay agency fees of $100 - $150 per girl for each time I shoot her(What a racket the agents have). When I shoot an L&C handjob or anything else with hardcore the models expect to be paid a set amount for that scene regardless of how long it takes to shoot or how long the final video ends up plus the agency fee of course. To give you an idea of how much I have to pay them consider that the guys in those clips get $200 - $250 just for that one video.

One thing that I do more work on and spend more money on too is wardrobe and sets. Because I shoot so many different fetishes and some of those like BE and Gts Growth actually involve clothes being destroyed(so I often need 2 sets of identical outfits) I have to have complete wardrobe available for each and every model. Thats MUCH MUCH MUCH harder then it sounds. Think about all the different size and shape models I shoot and for each of them I usually go through 5-6 wardrobe changes minimum and that doesn't include all the clothes that they tried on but didn't like the way they looked in it. When I was in the biz and getting hired by different companies I showed up on set with 2 suitcases full of clothes so the directors had lots of choices. I guess those days are gone because most of the time the model shows up with just the clothes she's wearing or sometimes she'll have a bikini in her purse as her one piece of "wardrobe".

I have a few more replies to other posts in this thread but I'll have to do that later because I'm heading out to Goodwill and then the Outlet stores right now because of a shoot I have scheduled for tomorrow.

[rflcblue]

Can u post those videos on clips4sale so that anyone who is interested can buy them.

I know that clips4sale is very popular within the community. But in this thread we wanted to look at the background, so let?s do this. If I would offer a 10 minutes clip for 10,-Dollars (or Euro) they take 40% (look also at Mistress Taylor?s post). OK, that are 6,- Dollars (or Euro) for me. Then I have to ask my tax accountant, if I have to pay sales tax (in Germany 19% at the moment). Anyway I have to pay income tax, maybe 30-35 %. That means 4,- Dollars (or Euro) at most remaining for me (I cannot draw off the costs for I had loss for the past 3 years and then the fiscal authorities don?t accept this anymore; they tell you it?s just your hobby, you don?t intend to make profits at all).

At the moment I feel like I have done my contribution to this theme. Sometimes I am a little bit sad, but even more I am glad that I put down business. Besides it is better for the concentration on my regular job (?which finally financed my activities).

[winniethebeer]

Taylor dont forget to continue your post here!

[goneju]

I know that clips4sale is very popular within the community. But in this thread we wanted to look at the background, so let?s do this. If I would offer a 10 minutes clip for 10,-Dollars (or Euro) they take 40% (look also at Mistress Taylor?s post). OK, that are 6,- Dollars (or Euro) for me. Then I have to ask my tax accountant, if I have to pay sales tax (in Germany 19% at the moment). Anyway I have to pay income tax, maybe 30-35 %. That means 4,- Dollars (or Euro) at most remaining for me (I cannot draw off the costs for I had loss for the past 3 years and then the fiscal authorities don?t accept this anymore; they tell you it?s just your hobby, you don?t intend to make profits at all).

At the moment I feel like I have done my contribution to this theme. Sometimes I am a little bit sad, but even more I am glad that I put down business. Besides it is better for the concentration on my regular job (?which finally financed my activities).

I agree with you. But you can charge whatever looks feasible to you. Atleast people like me who are interested in buying the clips will buy irresective of the cost.

[ocatcher]

Hello filmguy,

Thank you for trying to begin this thread. I could write a long posting with details of my thoughts, also with information about my work ?another time. Here are 2 notions:

1. One thing is to explain the lift and carry fans about the background and the difficulties to offer lift and carry videos online as a viable business in order to make them more sensitive against abuse and more open to support producers.

2. Another thing is not to discourage those enthusiasts, who are only 1-2 steps away from offering their stuff online by telling them how complicated and senseless it is (no viable business possible). This would be a shame.

I agree with CMCWmod concerning the wildly divided community and their fondness for different l&c-details and also with Dendrin concerning the combination of fetishes for making a project viable. Maybe you consider that too much professionalism (one girl for all fetishes) does not guarantee the best l&c-result (see Homoancients posting about his balloonfetish-video). Probably there are people who are curious to offer their own content, though they know they cannot become rich of it. Is it possible to find a balance between hobby and business?

I finally do not regret at all, what I did with shecarries. This was a damned thrilling time, a spice in my live, a counterpart of my straining job and I was also glad when a couple of customers told me they like the videos, I only just earned nothing.

Thank you and best regards,

Jo.
(www.shecarries.com)

hey i recently tried to buy the clips on your site but it's down, anyway for me to buy and download some of the clip batches again?

[intolnc]

hey i recently tried to buy the clips on your site but it's down, anyway for me to buy and download some of the clip batches again?

Hi, I second this question. I once had all the video pools of your site, but had a hard disk crash a while ago and lost every last bit of it. Very sad that there's no possibility now to get anything back.

[rflcblue]

hey i recently tried to buy the clips on your site but it's down, anyway for me to buy and download some of the clip batches again?

I am glad about your interest in shecarries-clips and that you post in this old thread. At the moment I don?t make L&C-business and I am not ready for new activities yet. But I miss it a little bit. Clips4sale does not seem so bad for me (?words of my tax accountant). Maybe I will install it sometime but not in the near future. My job and some things within my family have priority. I am really sorry and I hope you understand.

One general note:
I visit this forum very often, although I don?t post much. I am glad that a couple of people created this place for L&C-fans. When I think of all the different fetishes around the world, I suppose, that hardly another group has such a kind place to exchange experiences. Thanks to the founders and especially to the excellent teamwork of the moderators!

Jo.
www.shecarries.com

[Daniel]

Jo! Was gibt neues ?

[rflcblue]

Hi, I second this question. I once had all the video pools of your site, but had a hard disk crash a while ago and lost every last bit of it. Very sad that there's no possibility now to get anything back.

?very angrily with your harddrive! I have it on two harddrives and the raw-material on the Mini-DV?s, so I hope, I won?t loose this, but when there is a fire in this house, everything is gone. Probably I should make a testament and give it to this forum when I die, because my friends and my family really try to appear very interested when they see one of my clips, but actually cannot use this at all :confused1: ... Most funny is my mother, she is over 75 and appears very interested, though she does not have this fetish :D (?maybe a good new idea for a thread: what do your non L&C-Fans say to your activities and whom do you tell this, or have I missed this?, oh, must have been there already, I belief I have missed it).

Once again, I?m sorry for the moment, but maybe...comes a time..., finally I stay lift and carry fan for the rest of my life.

[rflcblue]

Jo! Was gibt neues ?

Danke der Nachfrage, Daniel.

...mal ein bi?chen auf Deutsch schreiben ist auch nett. Es geht mir gut, aber ich freue mich auf den Sommer, die sich entbl?tternden Frauen und meine L&C-Aktivit?ten im Warmen, wenn ich die Gelegenheit bekomme.

Viele Gr??e,

Jo.

[phoneman]

Danke der Nachfrage, Daniel.

...mal ein bi?chen auf Deutsch schreiben ist auch nett. Es geht mir gut, aber ich freue mich auf den Sommer, die sich entbl?tternden Frauen und meine L&C-Aktivit?ten im Warmen, wenn ich die Gelegenheit bekomme.

Viele Gr??e,

Jo.



rfcblue, keine Duetsche, bitte. There is a German language thread. Here please use English.

[Daniel]

Danke der Nachfrage, Daniel.

...mal ein bi?chen auf Deutsch schreiben ist auch nett. Es geht mir gut, aber ich freue mich auf den Sommer, die sich entbl?tternden Frauen und meine L&C-Aktivit?ten im Warmen, wenn ich die Gelegenheit bekomme.

Viele Gr??e,

Jo.
I would like to see a continuation of the video 6

[rflcblue]

rfcblue, keine Duetsche, bitte. There is a German language thread. Here please use English.

?. No problem, here is the translation:

Daniel:
Jo, what is new?

Jo:
Thanks for asking!
? some words in German are also quite nice. I feel fine, yet I look forward to the summer, the girls in summerdress and my lift and carry activities, when I get the occasion.

[blauesau]

rflcblue i like to join shecarries, how can i contact?

[girlfights]

Just took a look at your site,, you had some neat videos.. I liked looking at yours to give me ideas for mine.. Love that you are German.. Guys speaking German has always been a turn on for me.. not sure why, I just love the way your language sounds, so guttural, I just find it very sexy.. See guys, it's ok to be turned on by things normal people don't understand.. I like blonde hair, blue eyes, leather pants and a German accent :)

[blauesau]

Just took a look at your site,, you had some neat videos.. I liked looking at yours to give me ideas for mine.. Love that you are German.. Guys speaking German has always been a turn on for me.. not sure why, I just love the way your language sounds, so guttural, I just find it very sexy.. See guys, it's ok to be turned on by things normal people don't understand.. I like blonde hair, blue eyes, leather pants and a German accent :)

ich habe leider nicht alles verstanden...

[dendrin]

rflcblue i like to join shecarries, how can i contact?

He no longer maintains a credit card merchant, so don't think its possible anymore.

[girlfights]

ich habe leider nicht alles verstanden...

I used Babel fist to translate this.. dunno if it is right or close.. but this is a translation of what I said:

Nahm gerade einen Blick an Ihrem Aufstellungsort, Sie hatte einige ordentliche Videos. Ich mochte Ihr betrachten, um mir Ideen f?r meine zu geben. Lieben Sie, dass Sie. deutsch sind. Die Kerle, die Deutsches sprechen, ist immer eine Umdrehung an f?r mich. gewesen. nicht sure, warum, ich gerade die Weise liebe, klingt Ihre Sprache, also guttural, finde ich sie gerade sehr reizvoll. Sehen Sie Kerle, it' von den normalen Leuten don' eingeschalten zu werden s-O.K., der Sachen; t verstehen. Ich mag blondes Haar, blaue Augen, lederne Hosen und einen deutschen Akzent

[rflcblue]

Just took a look at your site,, you had some neat videos.. I liked looking at yours to give me ideas for mine.. Love that you are German.. Guys speaking German has always been a turn on for me.. not sure why, I just love the way your language sounds, so guttural, I just find it very sexy.. See guys, it's ok to be turned on by things normal people don't understand.. I like blonde hair, blue eyes, leather pants and a German accent :)

Whow..., thanks a lot for your very friendly words making me nearly turning pink. I never looked upon german language in this way. I always think that it is very hard to learn for foreigners, because it is very complicated.

I am always afraid, not to meet the right english words and sometimes don?t understand ambitious comments though using an online dictionary. So I am impressed that you have the nerv for this babelfish translation, less correct but anyway authentic and be sure, every german guy will understand the essence and be glad.

I wish you good luck for your activities,

Jo.

[rflcblue]

He no longer maintains a credit card merchant, so don't think its possible anymore.


Thank you Dendrin, your information is correct.

I do not plan to reactivate selling videos via my website, probably via clips4sale sometime. But at the moment private issues and my job have priority.

Finally I am rather a lift and carry fan than a businessman and I am a little bit ashamed, when I see a request or a friendly comment sometimes. But at the moment I have not enough time and I am not ready yet to start again.

[girlfights]

Whow..., thanks a lot for your very friendly words making me nearly turning pink. I never looked upon german language in this way. I always think that it is very hard to learn for foreigners, because it is very complicated.

I am always afraid, not to meet the right english words and sometimes don?t understand ambitious comments though using an online dictionary. So I am impressed that you have the nerv for this babelfish translation, less correct but anyway authentic and be sure, every german guy will understand the essence and be glad.

I wish you good luck for your activities,

Jo.



English is so complicated and I would assume very difficult to learn.. Thanks for the reply :)

[blauesau]

rflcblue, pls contact me. here is my adress:
http://landcforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123&page=10

[goneju]

According to me noone other than the person who has passion for lift and carry can make money out of producing lift and carry videos. I have been incurring losses as well as having profits at time on few videos. But frankly speaking I am not bothered about the profit or loss as I am not producing lift and carry stuff for money. Its my passion and love and I will be producing them as long as I can afford them. Though if one earns profit it gives motivation to produce more videos. That will always be motivating factor. Most of the producers here are producing videos for making money and thats the reason they get disheartened after some time and stop producing videos. If someone like me who is die hard fan of lift and carry produces the video its a different scenario. Person who loves this fetish will love to do anything for this fetsish no matter how much sacrifice he has to do for this. Problem is most of the producers are doing this for money. And people who are die hard fan of lift and carry are not producing the videos due to some compulsions. If more and more people who love this fetish start producing the videos then this problem will subside. :thumbup1:

[WWE4Life]

According to me noone other than the person who has passion for lift and carry can make money out of producing lift and carry videos. I have been incurring losses as well as having profits at time on few videos. But frankly speaking I am not bothered about the profit or loss as I am not producing lift and carry stuff for money. Its my passion and love and I will be producing them as long as I can afford them. Though if one earns profit it gives motivation to produce more videos. That will always be motivating factor. Most of the producers here are producing videos for making money and thats the reason they get disheartened after some time and stop producing videos. If someone like me who is die hard fan of lift and carry produces the video its a different scenario. Person who loves this fetish will love to do anything for this fetsish no matter how much sacrifice he has to do for this. Problem is most of the producers are doing this for money. And people who are die hard fan of lift and carry are not producing the videos due to some compulsions. If more and more people who love this fetish start producing the videos then this problem will subside. :thumbup1:

The only problem with this quote is that in an earlier post you stated when others suggested that you lower your prices (which are far and away more expensive per minute than any other producer in the category) that you deserved to charge more because of the variety of girls and material that could not be duplicated by any other producer. It certainly seems ironic that you're doing it for the love of lift and carry and then charging more than any other producer. Just a thought, not meant as a criticism as I only have a passing interest in f/f lift and carry anyway and focus primarily on f/m. You definitely have sexy girls, but it seems that there is no reason your videos should cost more than other lift content especially when many previews indicate that the girls are "learning to lift" on the fly. Other producers that include sexual/suggestive content and/or storylines should likely charge more than your store.

[goneju]

The only problem with this quote is that in an earlier post you stated when others suggested that you lower your prices (which are far and away more expensive per minute than any other producer in the category) that you deserved to charge more because of the variety of girls and material that could not be duplicated by any other producer. It certainly seems ironic that you're doing it for the love of lift and carry and then charging more than any other producer. Just a thought, not meant as a criticism as I only have a passing interest in f/f lift and carry anyway and focus primarily on f/m. You definitely have sexy girls, but it seems that there is no reason your videos should cost more than other lift content especially when many previews indicate that the girls are "learning to lift" on the fly. Other producers that include sexual/suggestive content and/or storylines should likely charge more than your store.

If you are following my store recently the cost problem is more or less solved if you see my recent updates. But still I hold the right as far as pricing is concerned. Pricing now of my recent posts are in line with market trend. I still challenge anyone to give such variety which I have in my store. Enough has been discussed about the pricing so I would restrict myself of writing more.

[dendrin]

Dave makes a good point about girls learning to lift "on the fly". Sometimes you get a nice surprise, but generally they are overly cautious and can lead to boring videos. Some are just very weak and shouldn't be doing l&c. Variety is good, but if you find a good pair of girls that do lifts well I would stick with them for many shoots and then you can get some more advanced lifts, which of course would lead to more profit.