Do you think this is genetic ?

[nomadicbunny]

Well I am sorry if this topic was already posted. I am just curious if your fetish is a prodcut of your genetic predisposition or a result of an enviormental stimulus. That is, if you think that you think you are into L&C cuz your family members are (e.g. dad,brother etc.) or did something happen to you as a child to make you interested in this sort of thing.

[Leobor]

I dont think anything with a human behaviour is genetic.

[winniethebeer]

I dont think its genetic. Maybe we could have liked another thing (instead of being carried) and it would have become our fetish but we just got the taste of lift and cary before any other potential fetish. Like an addict who could be addicted to any of several drugs but became addicted to the first one he tried.

[Liftme71]

I also think its genetic. You can read that 20% of the Men have female Brains so its often that these men have female minds and wishes. Mother Nature is strange.

[winniethebeer]

I also think its genetic. You can read that 20% of the Men have female Brains so its often that these men have female minds and wishes. Mother Nature is strange.

what do you mean by female brain?

[Leobor]

It doesnt make sense too me too.:confused1:

[nomadicbunny]

I think Liftme71 is associating the fetish of bieng lifted with something feminine. I am suprised however that many people in this board think that this is not genetic when a lot of human behavior is (Sorry Leobor :tease: ). I respectfully disagree with you winniethebear. I have had exposure to many fetishes as a kid. I mean I would see movies where people would play with someones foot or smoke a ciggarate and I would never be attracted to that. I was however attracted to someone bieng carried even in the absence of sexual overtones.

[blinkfan4life182X]

nature vs. nurture I say its both

[Leobor]

I think Liftme71 is associating the fetish of bieng lifted with something feminine. I am suprised however that many people in this board think that this is not genetic when a lot of human behavior is (Sorry Leobor :tease: ). I respectfully disagree with you winniethebear. I have had exposure to many fetishes as a kid. I mean I would see movies where people would play with someones foot or smoke a ciggarate and I would never be attracted to that. I was however attracted to someone bieng carried even in the absence of sexual overtones.

Ok, so I guess all LC lovers have same ansestor.:confused1:

Hmmm... Sorry but - :no:.

[winniethebeer]

I think Liftme71 is associating the fetish of bieng lifted with something feminine. I am suprised however that many people in this board think that this is not genetic when a lot of human behavior is (Sorry Leobor :tease: ). I respectfully disagree with you winniethebear. I have had exposure to many fetishes as a kid. I mean I would see movies where people would play with someones foot or smoke a ciggarate and I would never be attracted to that. I was however attracted to someone bieng carried even in the absence of sexual overtones.

But i think the intensity of the experience is what counts. Seeing a movie of a woman lifting a guy is not as powerful to seeing the girl you first had a crush on lifting her big brother for example.

[tjw1971]

I mean, obviously, I can't speak for everyone. I'm sure there *are* guys out there into the lift/carry thing because it appeals to their "feminine side" or whatever.

But I also see all sorts of other aspects to it. For example, what about guys who are into it because it's a form of dominance to them? (EG. Mainly interested in seeing a small gal struggle to carry a much bigger guy.)

What about guys who are simply into the idea of tall/amazon women, and see this as an extension of it? (EG. She's *so* big and tall, she can lift me like it's nothing....) An admiration of really tall women doesn't seem like it has much of anything to do with a gender preference. (Sure, most women happen to prefer taller guys, but I don't think they're especially interested in MUCH taller guys, as a general rule. Some would be, just as a few probably like short guys.)



I think Liftme71 is associating the fetish of bieng lifted with something feminine. I am suprised however that many people in this board think that this is not genetic when a lot of human behavior is (Sorry Leobor :tease: ). I respectfully disagree with you winniethebear. I have had exposure to many fetishes as a kid. I mean I would see movies where people would play with someones foot or smoke a ciggarate and I would never be attracted to that. I was however attracted to someone bieng carried even in the absence of sexual overtones.

[Liftme71]

....What about guys who are simply into the idea of tall/amazon women, and see this as an extension of it? (EG. She's *so* big and tall, she can lift me like it's nothing....)

Thats also a feminine Side. Ststistics says that 90% of all Woman would prefer tall Men.

[ramonra]

I think there are variations, because this fetish is quite different from person to person.
Some want to be lifted by taller girls, some prefer muscular bodybuilders, some like to be lifted by a girl that struggles to lift him, others prefer girls that lift them as they were feathers...

Myself I prefer hot girls to lift me, no preference if they are smaller or taller as long as they are *hot* :P. I prefer that she has an easy time carrying me, and the longer the better.

I chose genetic. Why? Because I remember feeling something strange as young as 6 when girls my age piggybacked me. And another good reason, because I just figured out that my brother likes to see videos on youtube of girls kicking boys asses...

Probably the environment has an influence on how you develop this, but I think there is a genetic base.

[ownsville]

I dont think anything with a human behaviour is genetic.

Right on, that way lies excuses and letting criminals and crap parents off the hook.

[ownsville]

I think it's nurture, manifesting things at early ages is not evidence of genetic trends. In fact, I don't think there is data in our cells that can actually dictate 'preferring' being lifted or finding it arousing.

That's all stuff we pick up along the way, and that's not to say the ways we do so are not as mysterious or confusing as if they were lost in our genes somewhere.

We might be genetically predisposed toward seeking protection from a strong woman, maybe - but again, that's something that can be altered by different nurturing...I could run myself around in circles about this but basically your genes determine certain things (ie, they definitely had a hand in me hating maths and liking English at school, because I'm crap at one and ok at the other) and set the bassline for your nurture/development/learning. Your cells CAN'T contain data about sexual preferences, they only contain the desire to have sex - with something, anything. It's your nurture that determines whether you're raised left, right, up, down, straight, bi, bent, or just downright indifferent. If we didn't have nurture we wouldn't even be debating this because we'd all be having sex with whatever had a hole, like the species used to some millenia ago. I don't think they recognised L&C back then.


In fact, and if I may digress, I don't think L&C has been around as a sexual fascination for very long at all in the grand scheme of things - late 1800's at the earliest. The only instances I can think of it having any outlet to become anything more than a stunt at a travelling show were...well, travelling shows, I guess! Early 1900's you've got circuses and strongmen/women who used to do stuff like carry people around and it was a big deal because it blew gender roles out of the window. Then in the 50's/60's you get Virgil Crumb who kind of raised its profile in a camp/perplexing way and now we have youtube and the rest of the net and it's an obscure little club that's actually starting to slowly accrue momentum as people crawl out of the net and into the fetish. L&C probably saw a peak back in the eighties when muscle fitness was all the rage and you had loads of 'powerhouses' in both genders - cynthia roth-whatshername, Grace Jones (yeah, they weren't necessarily lifters, but there was that wave of "girls are as strong as guys" following Lundgren, Stallone and Schwarzenegger around hollywood).


There's a good topic to start if it hasn't been done yet - have we got any L&C historians here?

[brucebarnes]

No, not genetic.

I don't believe fetishes in general are genetic.
They are adaptations of deviation from "normal" behavior, perhaps due to deviation in childhood development, or perhaps due to psychological issues by which defense mechanisms are working at hand, or maybe just no great reason --for example, maybe someone working in a shoe store where a lot of cute woman come in (don't know if such a store exists) that sees and touches their feet all day develops a fancy to them (of course, that would still probably be a defense mechanism thing because they don't have the confidence to ask them out, only to enjoy their feet...).

Something that I'll share with the group abnormal about my upbringing is that must have lead to this is:
1) I never "played with myself" as a child during the years that they say it's normal and expected.
Simply, it just didn't happen naturally or by "accident". It's notthat I didn't want to, I just didn't know I was supposed to. lol.
2) No one tought me the "birds and bees" as a kid.
It wsn't until I was much older and actually learned it in school (probably pre-teen!)

As a result, as a pre-teen, I never fantasized about sex because I never used my "tool" for anything besides pee-ing!.
Yet, I developed sexual desires, like anyone, so I guess they had to attach to something else.
It was later in life that I slowly "transitioned" into the idea of actual "sex", but since the lift/carry desire came first, as they say, it's hard to appreciate your future love/passions as much as the 1st.

[winniethebeer]

genetics is overrated :)

[mark.johnson21]

It's probably both, but I'm sure genetics have a part in it. For instance, I recently found out that one of my ancestors was a short guy who married a strong, tall woman... and I have no doubt in my mind that lift and carry was part of that.

Just as innate behavior can sometimes be attributed to genetics (ever been told that everybody in your family is paranoid?), why can't innate sexual instincts?

[brucebarnes]

It's probably both, but I'm sure genetics have a part in it. For instance, I recently found out that one of my ancestors was a short guy who married a strong, tall woman... and I have no doubt in my mind that lift and carry was part of that.

Just as innate behavior can sometimes be attributed to genetics (ever been told that everybody in your family is paranoid?), why can't innate sexual instincts?

My belief...
LC is too... "sophisticated" a thing to be genetic like you describe with your ancestor. I think that's strictly coincidence.

However, I do think genetics play their part in a foundation for being prone to certain things, but certainly not somethign as specific as LC.
Genetics can contribute to the foundation for say, sexual or other deviations, intelligence, etc.
I have a friend with severe OCD (Obsessive compulsive disorder).
What I find interesting is tht his entire family suffers from somethng abnormal --his brother was a homo-sexual, hus sister has severe depression issues, and in my friends case, everything is "normal" except for the severe OCD.
All 3 siblings are extremely intelligent.
Their parents are 100% "normal" so-to speak, the father bneing a physicion.

So it's like the combination of 2 "normal", intelligent parents somehow mixed in a way that produced children with maybe a brain chemical imballance that manifested itself in 3 totally different ways for each of the 3 children.

My point again being that I think genetics can play into the development of a LC fetish, but if a "deviation from normal" occurs, it can manifest in many different ways, LC being an obscure one, and that particular seldom traveled path is due to development environmental factors.
But indeed, it can all be environmental with no genetics as well.

--again, just my personal "armchair psychology" opinions.

[Leobor]

Bruce, in my opinion something is very wrong with their familmy (of course within walls of their home). Parents probably done something wrong in raising of those children.

I repeat - I dont think genetics has anything to do with it, but maybe in certain way yes. It looks like that small or skinny guys are more likely to be attracted to tall and stronger girls, and explanation is simple - subcontiously they want to make their bloodline stronger and taller (meaning on their children). That would be interesting subject to investigate among us - were we all in childhood or teen-years a little bit wimpy. If answer is positive - we would have something like explanation.

[brucebarnes]

Bruce, in my opinion something is very wrong with their familmy (of course within walls of their home). Parents probably done something wrong in raising of those children.

I repeat - I dont think genetics has anything to do with it, but maybe in certain way yes. It looks like that small or skinny guys are more likely to be attracted to tall and stronger girls, and explanation is simple - subcontiously they want to make their bloodline stronger and taller (meaning on their children). That would be interesting subject to investigate among us - were we all in childhood or teen-years a little bit wimpy. If answer is positive - we would have something like explanation.

I think we're saying the same thing here.
Although, the theory, while very interesting, about the whimpy guy subcontiously tryign to improve his bloodline is a stretch.
But if it's true, it's basically saying that an LC deviation is actually right in line with evolution and adaptation to make a supperior hu,ankind race... haha

About the upbringing, Imentioned this somewhere recently (in another thread perhaps), but I really don't think there was anything odd abotu my parents other than maybe they avoided teaching me the "birds and bees" when they were mabey "supposed to".
THat, and the fact that I never seemd to naturally "discover myself" at the young age phychologist say is natural.
SO I think those 2 things contributed to my childhood development not taking the exact path of most children with respect to this area, and although a "late bloomer" int is area that has normal relationships, etc, soem of my sexual chilhood develpopment energy took a stray path and ended up as the LC fetish.
...my self analysis theory.

Everyone obviously has a different story...

[vk]

It's environmental.
Look at Konrad Lorenz and his geese.
A child can develop a L&C fetish (or other) only if he ignores what real sex is.

[aloknath]

Judging from what I have read, most fetishes develop from environmental factors and I don't think L&C is an exception. It seems very unlikely to me that it is genetic.

[allffcradles]

This thread and much of the forum here is appearing very one sided, I'm hearing too much of guys that like to be carried rather than carrying or seeing women carried? Anyway time to put a voice to the other and more common part of our rare fetish.

I've been into lift and carry since I was as young as 4 or 5! Don't think I know of any younger than that but how did it occur? I saw a Taiwanese singer being tossed and carried in arms by guys, for some reason that was real hot for me and over the years it only became more of a fascination, my love for seeing f/f carries as a preference developed around my pubescent years, prior to that I never really witnessed any forms of ff.... As far as I'm aware no one else related to me has a thing for lift and carry, my sister likes to be carried as do many girls which fits into what someone said here about domination BUT I know many girls that don't like to be carried too.... Funnily enough of the few girls I've lifted, most of which don't!:D

For the record aside from being born at 8lb 5oz I've been a thin guy throughout my life, from when I resumed martial arts at 15 though I have got muscle and am strong so I can lift people heavier than myself but it goes to show I at least into buy into having a thing for being lifted cos I'm lighter than an average man. I actually hate being lifted so I don't have the 'feminine' genes present of the guys that do like to be carried, it sounds condescending but it does explain in a crude way that part of the enigmatic fetish (Males that like being carried), I on the other hand like to see women vulnerable I guess I even find something appealing about them crying, call me a chauvinist if you will! As for women being carried, my focus is always the liftee the lifter can be as ugly as satan for all I care if anything it makes it all the more impressive in the beauty and beast way!

So perhaps we can ask ourselves what our interest is with lift and carry? That's a point if it hasn't been done already, who of us here are focused on the lifter and who on the liftee?

I looked on this topic just to see what the views are, this fetish has confused me my whole life as to why its here and at one point I wished it wasn't! That was before I knew there were others out there!

[Leobor]

Dont worry allffcradles, I am very much like you, and there is others here too (we have MF threads in FF section, just for us). As for me (I said that in numerous posts) I dont like FM pics much, but sometimes I have an urge for some girl to lift me. But definetly my fascination is more like yours (it started almost on same way - I saw ballet course when I was a kid - 3 or 4 years old).

[brucebarnes]

This thread and much of the forum here is appearing very one sided, I'm hearing too much of guys that like to be carried rather than carrying or seeing women carried? Anyway time to put a voice to the other and more common part of our rare fetish.

I've been into lift and carry since I was as young as 4 or 5! Don't think I know of any younger than that but how did it occur? I saw a Taiwanese singer being tossed and carried in arms by guys, for some reason that was real hot for me and over the years it only became more of a fascination, my love for seeing f/f carries as a preference developed around my pubescent years, prior to that I never really witnessed any forms of ff.... As far as I'm aware no one else related to me has a thing for lift and carry, my sister likes to be carried as do many girls which fits into what someone said here about domination BUT I know many girls that don't like to be carried too.... Funnily enough of the few girls I've lifted, most of which don't!:D

For the record aside from being born at 8lb 5oz I've been a thin guy throughout my life, from when I resumed martial arts at 15 though I have got muscle and am strong so I can lift people heavier than myself but it goes to show I at least into buy into having a thing for being lifted cos I'm lighter than an average man. I actually hate being lifted so I don't have the 'feminine' genes present of the guys that do like to be carried, it sounds condescending but it does explain in a crude way that part of the enigmatic fetish (Males that like being carried), I on the other hand like to see women vulnerable I guess I even find something appealing about them crying, call me a chauvinist if you will! As for women being carried, my focus is always the liftee the lifter can be as ugly as satan for all I care if anything it makes it all the more impressive in the beauty and beast way!

So perhaps we can ask ourselves what our interest is with lift and carry? That's a point if it hasn't been done already, who of us here are focused on the lifter and who on the liftee?

I looked on this topic just to see what the views are, this fetish has confused me my whole life as to why its here and at one point I wished it wasn't! That was before I knew there were others out there!

Interesting perspective.

We do tend to try to neatly box this fetish, when in reality, it's too odd and varied to be "boxed" and categorized.

And about your discovery to find other besides your self have it --me too! I couldn't believe a group like this existed, with a bunch of others also trying to figure it out! Crazy...

And you say, 4-5 years old to first realize the fetish! wow.
THough, thinking back, there were many little things in my very young childhood, long before I knew what sex was, or even liked girls, that seemed to yield the same basic feeling that a good LC now does.
THings that made no sense, like the rin-tin-tin or Mr. ed TV songs.
It had nothing to do with the actors (people, horse or dog) int he show.
It was jsut the music as an object I guess.
As a little kid, I recorded it over and over and listened as I would go to sleep.
And somehow, it gave me a warm yet mystical feeling that years later, was similar to that of how you feel around a good lookign girl, or more over, the feelign of an LC scenario about to transpire.
I wasn't quite 4-5, maybe more like 7-8, but still, very young, and no sexual desires or attraction developed yet (at least that I was aware of).


ANyway, to your point about asking ourself what our LC interest is, not that you all want to hear me bla bla bla even more, but here's my blog.

While the nicely boxed FM LC is the "goal", so to speak, there's actually a lot of other variations that seem to interest me, though in more of a mysterious and unexpected way.

I've mentioned that I like getting rides on a legpress machine, where the girl sits, presses her legs, and wha-la --I go up.
Few seem to like this because htey say the girl doesn't have to be that strong, etc.
But for me, the idea of me totally just sitting, relaxed and non-strained, and being lifted with enough velosity to "feel" the lift in my gut, as opposed to having to carefully watch and think about it to "acknoledge that the lift is occuring, is awsome.

Now, here the interesting kicker...
Usually, when I get a girl to do this particular exercise, often, she too wants to experience the "sit back and relax and enjoy the ride" that I seem to want so much --So we reverse roles.

Oddly, I actually get something out of lifting her that way.
Because leg pressing a lighter person (the girl) is so extremely easy, and it's like the intersection where the whole fetish/object thing intersects witht he idea that there is a real person (the girl) and I too am, eing the lifting object am a real person, and we must both be real people and capable of fairly easily lifting eachother...
I dont' think I can put this in words... But I guess maybe what I'm partially saying is that in a lift, it's not only her that's an object, but me too.

Other things I oddly enjoy besides LC that surprise me are things that also intersect the girl being human vs. being an object.
For example, lets say she's getting very close to me for what ever reason.
Even stuff like feeling her body warmth can be a turn on (of course, only if she's cute, else it's repulsive!).
Or even seeing a really cute girl sweating --same thing (again, jsut to a small extent, not a lot). But again, it's like these human things indicate that she is a real person and not an object, which can sometimes almost an erotic thought.

ANother is to feel her strength, not even in an LC scenario.

FOr example, I recall back at a company I worked at, I had picked up a bunch of "budget" ice-tee bottles. The tee was great, and cheap (lol), only, the bottles were near impossible to open.
So one day, I figured out that the easy way was for one person to hold the bottle, and the other twist the cap w/2 hands.

I actually "exploited" this and founf my bottle opening partner --a 22 yr old Korean girl that I actually became good friends with at work.
I would hold the neck of the bottle as absolutely tight as I could, while she held the think part and turned it.
It amazed me that due to the extra torque she had holding the thick part of the bottle, she could over power me no matter how hard I held and tried to prevent the bottle neck from turning.
(Note that I would tryt ot hold the neckand not just the cover because I enjoyed the experience more than getting at the ice-tee!)

How sad I was when all the tee was gone and that was the end of this series of "activities".

ANyway, 2 points: 1) I got similar enjoyment out of this as being lifted --I guess it was because the girl was essentially in control by overpowering me, just by using the laws of physics. So it's liek laws of physics and this young cute girl teamed up to 100% over power me, no matter how hard to tried to prevent it. In fact, the "keep sake" from the experience was if my hands were scratched or hurt from attempting to stop her from rotating the bottle.

THe 2) point is relates back to the exploitation concept that we have been arguing --is a PB unethical because the girl doesn't know there's a sexual pleasure content at hand?

Well, in this case, it's even much less that a LC/PB --it's just opening a stupid ice tee bottle!
I guess by the definition many have, yes, I was taking advantage of her!

There are many other little scenarios I recall along those lines.
Another such one was when I looked into getting contact lenses.
There was a really cute girl operating some machine, and she had to adjust it so everythign lined up.
THe way she adjusted it was to turn a manual dial that moved the machine from side to side while my head was pressed on it, meaning, it also moved my head.
I couldn't resist the temptation to try to hold my neck still to try to resist her strength in rotating the dial.
I'm sure she felt me resisting it, and must have thought I was weird and didn't know why I would do such a thing.
None the less, she "cranked" it anyway, overpowering me, and aligning the machine the way she wanted it.
haha --what an odd scenario to get a tiny nit of the same gratification I get with LC.

Shoud I have later apologized to her and explained that she turned me on a bit with the whole dial/crank thing, and I went with it and thus took advantage? --it could have lead to her questioning if she wanted to even continue on her young career if it meant meeting "weirdos" like me that get a thrill out of her operating a simple medical device!

So another point here is that even if I totally restrained myself from encouraging anything that I get this sort of gratification from, it still happens to small extents in everyday life --there's a lot of unplanned scenarios.

Once (many years back), I was at spring break.
I was very tired, and didn't have the energy to "mingle" or keep up with everyone, so I found a nice, comfortable looking shair int he corner of the room where I just sat and zoned out.
Before I knew it, 2 incredibly hot girls came up to me, wanting the chair, and in bitchy fashion, didnt ask me to get up. Insted, they both immediately each grabbed an arm and together, pulled me up off the chair before I could even acknowledge exactly what happened.

Well, little did they know, but that was the highlight of the spring break trip for me!

THey wanted the chair, and knew exactly how to overcome me with out even the need to ask if I would give it to them.

I wonder if they would have done this if they knew that I got a bit of sexual gratification from this? --and tht it was I that got the bigger end of the stick, not them.
I suspect yes, they wanted the chair, and got a feelign of power themselfs by getting it the way they did, and couldn't care less what if anything I was thinking.

[rickishi]

I guess I will have to agree this L&C fetish does start showing up at a very young age. more like the same way a persons sexuality develops, even this starts at a very tender age. IN my case MY sexual interest towards girls started much after I had already realized I get turned on by girls lifting guys, so you know even before I knew what is sex , I was already playing with my LIL bro imagining L&C :D ... might look strange , but true

[Hokusai]

I also think its genetic. You can read that 20% of the Men have female Brains so its often that these men have female minds and wishes. Mother Nature is strange.

I think generally is the individual matter of single persons but... in my casus it could be something. i feel that i have a little feminine personality. I'm a straight guy with strong thinking about myself as a male but in all stereotypes i' m more feminine. So.. maybe soetimes there's something in it
(sorry for not so good english)

[ownsville]

If it were genetic other people in my family would have it. And although I'm not inclined to find out what floats their boats in that department *shudder*, I think I'd have picked up on it since I became aware of it in myself.

I have to say its environmental. I attribute fetishes to a combination of neglecting sexual exploration at a young age (ie, when everyone else was finding out what pornography was, I was reading up on tanks and samurai and stuff like that), and the earliest sexual/erotic stimulation a person experiences - context and all.

I think people's sexual orientation and preferences are something that manifests later but are developed sooner. If you can imagine experiences at a young age "setting the ball rolling" subconsciously, it is only later in life that we make the link between activity x and...er, well, xxx.

As ever, just speculating on a hypothesis.

[brucebarnes]

Ok, now you all have got me curious.

Several of you say that LC fetish tends to start at a very young age.
One person actually thinks he's 1st noticed it at 4-5 years old!

None the less, what age do boys start liking girls?
Seems like it's around adolescence or at least 11 or 12 years old at a miminum.

So does anyone recall having the LC interest BEFORE they started being attracted to girls?
And if so, what was it that you like about being lifted if girls didn't yet pop into your head?

I believe "normal" childhood development involves playing with one's self at very young ages, long before they develop attraction to the opposite sex.
So maybe if something went wrong there and they turned to LC, it would make sense that LC started before the adolescent girl attraction began.
But again, I'm fascinated as to what form it took in those early tender years?

I myself don't really recall thinking about LC until I was attracted to girls.
But maybe I need to rack my memory harder...

[Leobor]

Ok, now you all have got me curious.

Several of you say that LC fetish tends to start at a very young age.
One person actually thinks he's 1st noticed it at 4-5 years old!

None the less, what age do boys start liking girls?
Seems like it's around adolescence or at least 11 or 12 years old at a miminum.

So does anyone recall having the LC interest BEFORE they started being attracted to girls?
And if so, what was it that you like about being lifted if girls didn't yet pop into your head?

I believe "normal" childhood development involves playing with one's self at very young ages, long before they develop attraction to the opposite sex.
So maybe if something went wrong there and they turned to LC, it would make sense that LC started before the adolescent girl attraction began.
But again, I'm fascinated as to what form it took in those early tender years?

I myself don't really recall thinking about LC until I was attracted to girls.
But maybe I need to rack my memory harder...

I have to disappoint you, but I started to like girls at when I was about 4-5 years old. I didnt know what sex is BTW, I just had emotional connection which I was aware of.

I also remember i liked movies where guys were picking up girls and I remember I wanted to do the same. I fantasized about that too. First time I lifted a girl was when I was in kinder garden (5-6 years old) - I picked her up from behind, and I was pleased. :)

[warthog]

I was turned on by watching cartoon characters lift each other WAY before I was thinking about sex (I didn't know what it meant to be turned on, just really enjoyed watching the scene). I do think it's genetic in some way, probably like most other character traits.

[Altitude]

Interesting topic. The whole genetics vs environmental influence on traits and behaviours issue is a lot more complex than people like to make out. From what i gather currenmt thinking is that epigenetic factors, the interaction of genes and enviroment in a developing organism, are very important in determining individual traits. People with very similar genes and very similar upbringings can be very different. Theres evidence to suggest that tendencies towards personality traits can be determined by exposure to hormones during early development. Its easy to imagine tendencies towards certain fetishes being influenced in a similar way. Its not necessarily a case of "my dad liked x therfore it is determined that i like x also".

I read somewhere that sthenolagnia (arousal from displays of strength) is one of the most common fetishes among bot sexes. I guess LnC would fall under that umbrella, with a subset of people for whom it is a primary focus. I'm guessing theres a lot of people out there who enjoy it but who have other focuses and probably never considered seeking out forums/videos etc.

Personally i disinctly recall being interest in being lifted by/ lifting girls from a ver young age, like 3 or 4 years old. I had a lot of female friends as a kid and figured out i was atracted to girls very early on. of course i had no idea about sex at that point, it was more like just a desire for physical contact. I'm sure those formative experiences were an influence on my specific desires later in life, LnC being one of them. Interestingly i find myself drawn to girls who share physical characteristics, eg. the way they smell, particular types of hair and skin with the girls i played with as a kid. Wierd i can remember that stuff huh?

[vk]

Its easy to imagine tendencies towards certain fetishes being influenced in a similar way.
It is easy to imagine but IMHO it does not make sense. Because, in fact, you could say exactly the same thing about homosexuality. However homosexuality cannot be genetic or epigenetic, since homosexuals don't make kids.

[winniethebeer]

However homosexuality cannot be genetic or epigenetic, since homosexuals don't make kids.

well a homosexual can have a kid with a straight partner and if it is genetic it would be a recessive gene

[vk]

well a homosexual can have a kid with a straight partner and if it is genetic it would be a recessive gene

Yes but only a small number of homosexuals have kids with a straight partner so, recessive or not, the population of homosexuals would rapidly decresase, which is not what we observe ...

[Altitude]

It is easy to imagine but IMHO it does not make sense. Because, in fact, you could say exactly the same thing about homosexuality. However homosexuality cannot be genetic or epigenetic, since homosexuals don't make kids.

My point was that the genetic determinism vs. learned behavior is a false dichotomy. You dont need a "gay gene" to be passed on by a gay parent to make a kid that is hard wired to be homosexual. The influence of the environment an embyo develops in on gene expression, exposure to hormores/chemicals in the womb etc. is a big factor in determining how the animal developes, and may turn out to be as big a contributing factor to the animals charicteristics as the raw genetic material.

[winniethebeer]

Yes but only a small number of homosexuals have kids with a straight partner so, recessive or not, the population of homosexuals would rapidly decresase, which is not what we observe ...

the homosexual population doesn't decrease because recessive genes are present in non-homosexuals too, many who DO reproduce. ;)

[gaga141444]

L&C has to be genetic in some way - I personally remember when I was 3-5 liking it immensly (getting turned on from a kids perspective) when beautiful people were lifting. I also would really get charged when some good looking aunts/cousins would lift and place me on thier hip or in their lap. I remember thinking that this was not typically masculine (I was 5), but would still find it immensly pleasurable to be held by them.

[ljakse]

It is easy to imagine but IMHO it does not make sense. Because, in fact, you could say exactly the same thing about homosexuality. However homosexuality cannot be genetic or epigenetic, since homosexuals don't make kids.

Actually, homosexuals DOES make kids. Because same sex marriage is something new in the World and still not legal in most countries. Also, homosexuality is still a taboo and shame in almost any social environment, so homos mostly live in same way as the general population. So they get married with opposite sex, have children and force themselves whole lifetime not to be what they really are - homosexuals.
I don`t say homosexuality is genetic, but it could be.

And about L&C, I don`t know. It could be also genetic, but I don`t believe there aren`t the other factors. I think childhood plays most important role in generating sexual behavior.

[girlfights]

Yes but only a small number of homosexuals have kids with a straight partner so, recessive or not, the population of homosexuals would rapidly decresase, which is not what we observe ...


My dad was gay.. he had 3 kids.. (so is one brother, gay that is,, but there were environmental things that I think had a hand in that, more than genetic)

[vk]

My point was that the genetic determinism vs. learned behavior is a false dichotomy. You dont need a "gay gene" to be passed on by a gay parent to make a kid that is hard wired to be homosexual. The influence of the environment an embyo develops in on gene expression, exposure to hormores/chemicals in the womb etc. is a big factor in determining how the animal developes, and may turn out to be as big a contributing factor to the animals charicteristics as the raw genetic material.
I am not a specialist on this issue but I believe that you are jumping from one concept to another. Gene expression is not epigenetics.

For me gene expression occurs when the kid is growing, it is the kid's response to his own environmental factors. As for epigenetics, it occurs when the parents make the kid, it is a transmission to the kid of the parent's responses to their own environmental factors.

Epigenetics could interfere with homosexuality, for instance in an overpopulated area parents could produce more homosexuals. But again it is not what we observe, since there are not more homosexuals in China than in other countries :D

[girlfights]

There might be more in China but they are in the closet....

[EZ]

I think its environmental.

Tastes are personal, imo, and just like I have different tastes in music as my family I also have different tastes in what stimulates me on a sexual level.

[allffcradles]

Regarding China girlfights my friend went Beijing 2 years ago and well the two people he went with ended up in a gay bar, a little gay took interest in them and they hid in an ally for ages cos a big gay came after them :)

Gayjing!

No I don't believe there's a particularly large gay community amongst chinese and I am chinese btw. Paedophilia also is definitely more apparent in the west than east too.... My understanding of my people, huge on gambling but drugs and sex compared to the west very tame

Regarding lift and carry I also started liking it from a very young age, I am not aware of any family members having the same interest, my understanding of fetishes are that they're environmental, I saw a programme on fetishes a while ago and one woman into pain said she had a lot of brothers who would beat her often yet she got a kick out of it... Perhaps it was a way to deal with the pain? Mostly in secret I've carried this carry fetish for over 20years now and I continue to wonder how it came about...